Yawweee877h444Military officials reportedly discuss how to handle illegal orders from Trump – live | US elections 2024 | The Guardian
SanctusYou record it and impeach him
Because that’ll work in a Republican controlled House and Senate. I’m sure they’ll get right on drawing up articles of impeachment.
Then we just get fukt
Oh they’ll do an impeachment, they’ll impeach Obama Biden Harris 3 times just to “own the libs” then do a senate shenaigan where they call up republican senators while blocking democratic sentors from entering then they vote unanimous 51/51 and block them from eligibility of future federal office, even tho they probably wont run again.
Understand that when your goal is blocking things, you somstimes do things you know will almost certainly fail. Republicans have used this playbook for ages to block the Democratic party
Make them get tied up in as many pointless tasks to distract them from their other goals. Sometimes you’ll even occasionally win a long shot challange
If everything he does, per SCOTUS, while President is legal, than what do you impeach him for? Also, you guys voted in a red House and Senate, so that’s not happening on a good day.
You dont. I’m just fucken angry.
Emily (she/her)To my understanding the ruling doesn’t affect impeachment. Trump’s team argued that impeachment was the check and balance on presidential power iirc
LillyPipThey didn’t argue that in good faith. They knew the likelihood of that actually happening is near zero. If he was going to be impeached for anything at all, it would have been for inciting an insurrection – which is actual treason – and we all saw how that went. And they didn’t have the trifecta back then. There’s even less chance of that now, and they know it.
With what congress?
Came in late just to add what others have been saying I see. Please read the whole thread before you retread it.
ClassStruggleChanges made to dod policy in September allows him to use the military domestically upon request of local police force.
Which would still violate the posse comitatus act
SCOTUS:
Gweotweeeeen
Im sure there is a gray area there with DOD adding it to 5402.01
BigFigJesus Christ would you people stop citing on the books laws as if they mean ANYTHING now. Trump and his people will do whatever they want, the law be damned. Ink on a page in a law book means nothing to them now.
He’s not even right about what he’s citing.
No. Just no. That’s been completely blown out of proportion. It’s a reissue of a decades old memo to update intelligence sharing. It’s for groups like the Defense Intelligence Agency.
Which specifically says local police can request us military assistance
In regards to intelligence sharing. You can’t write a memo to invalidate a law.
© Assistance in responding with assets with potential for lethality, or any situation in which it is reasonably foreseeable that providing the requested assistance may involve the use of force that is likely to result in lethal force, including death or serious bodily injury. It also includes all support to civilian law enforcement officials in situations where a confrontation between civilian law enforcement and civilian individuals or groups is reasonably anticipated. Such use of force must be in accordance with DoDD 5210.56, potentially as further restricted based on the specifics of the requested support.
Thats not a memo
Sorry, a “directive”. Same difference, same problem.
“Pentagon officials discuss what to do if Trump were to attempt to deploy the military domestically, CNN reports”
“After CNN reports the Trump administration discusses how to replace all Pentagon officials, CNN reports.”
Does CNN have an opinion on the matter?
Their opinion is whatever makes the shareholders the most money
I’m not sure that was ever reported. Not according to CNN at least.
No worries, with project 2025, anyone not completely loyal to Trump or a minority will be retired in order make the military great again!
After which the military will be so ineffective we won’t need to worry about it.
That’s too optimistic. Some of Trump’s biggest supporters have been Generals like Flynn, Mattis, and Kelly. They just changed their tune after he fired them.
The Joint Chiefs literally yelled at him last time, in the oval office, like he was a private.
And he now has the ability to replace them.
He had that technical ability last time too.
Last time he had to get reelected. This time he has nothing to lose making him more dangerous than ever. We accomplish nothing by downplaying the danger he represents to make ourselves feel better.
If you check my other reply, I’m under no such burden. I fully expect him to take it farther, and faster.
Thank fucking god
This is the start
I wouldn’t think the Wagner group is big enough, or organized enough to take on the US military though.
I was suggesting offshoot paramilitary groups could spring up
Like Constellis?
Sterile_TechniqueVeteran here. If it’s any consolation, basic training included a fairly lengthy course (well… relative to the other shit they teach there at least) about how to identify and what to do when given unlawful orders. Lots of emphasis on DO NOT FUCKING FOLLOW THEM. Lots of emphasis on the Nuremberg trials / if your defense is “just followed orders…” then you’re fucked. They talked about people like Hugh Thompson Jr. and the severe back pain he sustained from lugging around those massive balls.
The military does NOT want to become Nazis or stormtroopers. If Trump plays the whole ‘execute order 66’ card, military leadership will tell him to suck a dick.
It’s the cops I’m worried about. And the neonazi civilians responding to Trump’s stochastic terrorism.
They talked about people like Hugh Thompson Jr. and the severe back pain he sustained from lugging around those massive balls.
Did they talk about that absolutely nobody from the My Lai massacre - the example you brought up - saw any real consequences, with only one guy - who killed 22 - serving 3.5 years before Nixon got him out?
Or that the highest ranking surviving Nazi, who had a real say in German leadership during the war, was Hitler’s trusted advisor and unrepentant, unwavering follower, even after the war, got off with 10 years since the US and the UK committed similar war crimes as he did, so they didn’t sentence him for that?
Or the Hague invasion act and US war crimes that precipitated it? Or the US war crimes since?
I think those guys will be just fine saying “I was just following the orders of the magnificent Cheeto”.
Nope! This is basic training we’re talking about. They teach only the details that accomplish the lesson. And the lesson was don’t follow illegal orders. If there’s more to the story that contradicts the lesson, you bet your ass it was omitted.
I guess my point was just because they tell you that you are going to get your ass kicked for committing war crimes does not mean they are not blatantly lying about it and that the US armed forcers would disobey illegal orders in a real, live situation.
That’s true - I guess we’ll see if and when it happens. But the training on that topic is pretty clear and heavily emphasized relative to other training. It’s also both a politically charged order and one that will elicit defensiveness even if it was made legal.
It’ll also cause a lot of infighting and heavily weaken our military, which would invite attacks from one (or more) of the nations we’ve pissed off with our shitty foreign policy… So there may well be troops taking to our streets shortly after that kind of order, but most likely not our troops.
What a fun alternative!
What if I told you, there are PLENTY of soldiers in every branch ready and waiting to betray any oath for daddy trump. They went through the same classes you did and just nodded along to get through it. Now they’re trained, and ready to fill the void when Trump fires or demotes anyone who refuses his orders.
And what if I told you that there’s also plenty of soldiers that will uphold the constitution and will be ready to fight for it.
They better get ready for a fight because it’s coming. they will have to decide if they will just resign in protest or if they will fight. How many will actually fight? Who knows. Nearly everyone I know personally in the military, has said many times “it’s just a job”
I’m not in anymore but I was one of them, reported and told others I would turn my gun on them if they tried to start “beating hippies heads in” when we were getting ready to be sent to a city protest. The military is not all Republicans like the police as it attracts a huge swath of different Americans doing for different reasons.
There are for sure good soldiers. My own cousin is one of them that I know would put down anyone who tried to turn on his men. But we have to acknowledge that there are MANY bad soldiers who would be more than willing to turn on this nation, and there are also plenty that would rather be aloof and not stick their necks out for a fight
Yep there's 2 sides to this. Which is why I think civil war is inevitable. There will be 2 factions, Trump loyalists and American loyalists.
At some point Trump wants the military to be completely subservient to him. This is needed so he can abolish Congress and create a new office for himself as dictator. He knows if he just leaves office after 4 years the court cases will resume and he will end up in prison. He will do anything to stay out of prison.
We can only hope the generals won't be loyal to him and when Trump fires the generals that their respective armed forces remain loyal to their general during the Civil War and not to Trump.
This is exactly what China and Russia wanted all along, to destabilize the usa. With us out of the way China will expand in the Phillipines and Taiwan while Russia expands its European offensive. I expect India to take advantage as well.
He won’t abolish congress, that would hurt rich people. He’ll just continue to ensure it’s useless for helping anyone.
CryptagionismisogynistI also think there will be a civil war. I think Trump is a Russian asset meant to cause it and do as much damage as possible to the US. And the same Russian propaganda that turned MAGA into a weapon has been affecting soldiers too.
The military is majority conservative especially enlisted. If officers try to keep things under control Der Fuhrer could just strip them of their commissions and give them to anyone he wants to. Especially if his people run congress.
I don’t think you understand the command structure of the US Armed forces.
Congress and the president issue all officer commissions and warrants for warrant officers respectively. Who can stop them from revoking them if they so choose?
That is absolutely not how that works.
And what did they vote for this time?
I’m not actually seeing a similar poll for 2024. They did do including veterans which is roughly 60/40. Regardless, if he treats the military the same way he did last time then any advantage among active duty troops will not last.
I hope you’re right even though a ton of members of the groups of people he has disparaged voted for him. I wouldn’t be surprised if the armed forces are among them.