@hacks4pancakes I cannot understand how it's still a coin toss. I don't understand how half the US look at the options and still vote for him?!

I'm sorry for how stressful it must be. I'm over the pond, and it worries me what might be coming, and what effect it might have.

@hacks4pancakes @hazz223

It's not just a matter of caring to vote, it's also about votes being actively suppressed. Hundreds of thousands of people have been struck from voter roles. Polling places have been closed. In some places, it's illegal to drive someone else to a polling place. Early voting shortened, mail in voting made more difficult. Election day is a work day for most people, and employers are only legally required to give 2 hours to vote.

We had an opportunity to correct some of this, and Joe Manchin decided that the filibusterer was more important. That man bears more blame for this than any one person who decides to stay home or vote for a third party.

@farbel @hacks4pancakes @hazz223

We can, and we should, and hopefully we will. But just like your dentist shaming you doesn't actually make you want to take better care of your teeth, blaming the victims of voter suppression isn't going to make them want to show up.

@notNapoleon @farbel @hacks4pancakes @hazz223

nobody is doing that though

nobody sane blames someone who is prevented from contributing

rather, you're changing the topic

you need to admit there are toxic idealists out there who do not vote or vote third party

that's privileged and entitled behavior by those people:

they act in a way there will be no consequences for them, while they throw others under the bus for their "morality"- ego masturbation

they don't know or they don't care

@benroyce @notNapoleon @farbel @hacks4pancakes @hazz223

> you need to admit there are toxic idealists out there who do not vote or vote third party

Okay. What makes you think they're the problem?

Your phrasing suggests that you're too angry/afraid to think strategically about this. If you act out of anger or fear without carefully considering what made you feel that way, it's easy to direct it at other people who are angry/afraid, instead of at the people who are causing the problem.

@WhiteCatTamer @benroyce @farbel

Duly noted. Are you all doing any GOTV or outreach right now?

@notNapoleon @hacks4pancakes @hazz223

@WhiteCatTamer Then I would encourage you to discuss this topic, and the vote-shaming approach in general, with whoever the most experienced members of your group are. Especially if you're working with a downballot local race.

@benroyce @farbel @notNapoleon @hacks4pancakes @hazz223

@farbel I think you should mention that to whoever is in charge of your voter outreach scripts, so they can take it into account.

@WhiteCatTamer @benroyce @notNapoleon @hacks4pancakes @hazz223

@darcher @farbel @WhiteCatTamer @notNapoleon @hacks4pancakes @hazz223

what is your concrete effective suggestion to improve outreach other than "it needs to be changed"?

yes it needs to be changed

to what?

a serious question, if you have anything to offer

do we coddle the feelings of those who do not vote, seduce them into voting?

since we lack the ability to appeal to their sense of social responsibility, since if they had that, they would already be voting

@callisto @darcher @farbel @WhiteCatTamer @notNapoleon @hacks4pancakes @hazz223

yeah, i had this problem in another thread

group 1: 100% valid reasons to be unable to vote due to disenfranchisement and voter suppression

group 2: completely able to vote, just choosing not to

i am not sure why discussion of group 2 automatically invokes discussion of group 1, when i see two entirely different topics

but many many times i talk about group 2, and group 1 gets invoked

i don't understand it

@callisto @darcher @farbel @WhiteCatTamer @notNapoleon @hacks4pancakes @hazz223

no i get it, lots of reason why people don't vote, and there's crosschatter because for each group the approach is very diferent

@benroyce

I've been thinking about this (plenty of time to think since contact rate has been abysmal since July - I'd thought it was the heat, but still nobody's answering their doors now). I'm thinking now that people who are perceived as choosing not to vote, fall into three categories:

(1) People who really, truly have no significant barriers and just choose not to vote. Those people are so ignorant of their privilege that they'd vote for Trump anyway. Good riddance.

1/n