@vwbusguy @arichtman @mttaggart one time i made a very attractive lady literally snotlaugh by saying "kubernetes appears to have been invented to solve a litany of problems that nobody actually appears to have"

@Viss @arichtman @mttaggart This just tells me you didn't have the wonderful joy of trying to run Docker Swarm in production in its early days and I'm happy for you in that regard. Sweet glory did Kubernetes solve a lot of problems compared to that.

@vwbusguy @Viss @arichtman @mttaggart what do you think about Docker Swarm today? I tried k8s in my homelab and I hated it. Just not a great fit for such a low scale. Now I run Docker Swarm and I hate it much less. Still not great though but I see no alternative...

@vwbusguy @Viss @arichtman @mttaggart thats what I tried first but I liked it even less. In k8s I at least had to learn how it works and every upgrade has a defined path. In k3s the install is `curl | sh` and what about upgrades? Just swapping out the binary and hope nothing breaks? I got it up and running with Ansible but I was not feeling great about it and expected it to break all the time. With swarm I just install the debian package and use the community.docker.docker_swarm ansible module

@DrRac27 @Viss @arichtman @mttaggart Upgrade for k3s is you run that same script again. It upgrades the components for you. You can also revert versions and you can backup etcd in case you want to start fresh. Etcd on k3s single node is just an sqlite database.

@DrRac27 @Viss @arichtman @mttaggart Coincidentally, Ansible is the reason I got into using k3s. I've been running AWX on it for years in my dayjob for an environment where I didn't have k8s established but just wanted to run Ansible AWX there.

@vwbusguy @Viss @arichtman @mttaggart ok good to know. I still don't think it is right for me but at least I learned sth, thanks!

@DrRac27 @Viss @arichtman @mttaggart For things that I run in a container that don't need all the overhead of Kubernetes, I use podman with systemd to manage, so they end up running more like traditional Linux services, but getting updates through `podman pull` instead of yum update. Podman plays nicer with rootless, firewalld, cgroups2, etc., and has a fairly straightforward migration path to k8s if you end up needing to go bigger down the road.

@DrRac27 @Viss @arichtman @mttaggart My general opinion is that podman with a proxy in front (eg, caddy, nginx) can do most of what swarm can with less overhead and if you really need more than that, then you probably should be thinking about Kubernetes anyway.

@vwbusguy @Viss @arichtman @mttaggart I would love to use podman or kata but then I have no orchestration, right? If one node goes down for what ever reason (reboot, crash, I want to change hardware or reinstall) no other node picks up the tasks of that node? Can I build a sane failover with something like keepalived? If I had more time I would just write something myself, I can't believe nobody did it yet...