Robbert van EijndhovenSep 25, 2024
Nowhere Girl

The first vaginoplasty was done in 1898 on a cis woman, and the procedure was well established before the first trans woman patient in 1931. The first penile inversion vaginoplasty was done in 1903 for an intersex woman and wasn't used for a trans woman until 1952.

Trans healthcare procedures are both far older than cis people believe, older than many accepted medical procedures today, and weren't even originally invented for our benefit.

Sep 24, 2024 at 5:19pmWeb
Show threadNatanox πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦πŸ‡΅πŸ‡ΈSep 24, 2024
@gwynnion It would be so interesting to know what was in that library of Magnus Hirschfeld before it was destroyed by the nazis. It must've been a treasure trove of early modern sexology.
Show threadScary Pumpkin Lantern πŸŽƒ Sep 24, 2024
@Natanox @gwynnion I feel like the destruction of this institute is something that isn't talked about enough, btw.
It's like a diorama displaying what they are actually about. Many people don't even know about it.
Show threadThe Boxing KangarooSep 24, 2024
@gwynnion but there was no anaesthetic back then!!!
Show threadNowhere GirlSep 24, 2024
@platypusparent A variety of anesthesia methods were known and in use in the 19th century, including chloroform, ether, opioids, alcohol, cocaine, and other substances depending on the location.
Show threadChawarmaSep 24, 2024
@gwynnion hi ! I'm sorry if it's a stupid question but I really want to learn. What is an intersex woman ? Is it a person born with both female and male genitals ?
Show threadJoan GreySep 24, 2024

@Chawarma @gwynnion

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=intersex

Intersex

For those who think it's easier to annoy you than to Google 'Intersex' themselves.

LetMeGoogleThat.com
Show threadChawarmaSep 24, 2024
@JoanGrey many thanks for that spark of knowledge
Show threadJoan GreySep 24, 2024

@Chawarma

You're welcome. I find that googling the things I'm curious about is often a great start to learning things.

Show threadLucky ✨Sep 24, 2024
@Chawarma @gwynnion intersex conditions are a huge umbrella term describing someone born with sex characteristics that don't fit nearly into male or female. Many intersex babies are operated on shortly after birth, sometimes even without the knowledge of the parents, which can be really devastating. Often if doctors and/or parents make a call to "correct" an intersex baby to one gender to the other based on aesthetics, and it turns out to be a bad choice...
Show threadLucky ✨Sep 24, 2024
@Chawarma @gwynnion ...at which point the adult intersex person, or their parents if they're still young, have to decide to undo the "correction" one way or another. Sometimes this means a doctor went "eh close enough to a boy lol, stitch up anything else" and then she ended up having ovaries and being estrogen dominant and having to figure out what to do about that later. Don't know the specific case mentioned here but that's common enough it describes a decent amount of intersex women haha.
Show threadLucky ✨Sep 24, 2024
@Chawarma @gwynnion *for the most part* the idea of having "both" fully functional genitals is a fantasy, most intersex conditions are more of an in-between state that is erroneously "corrected" to one or the other. Whether intersex people consider themselves trans or identify with the trans community tends to be on a case by case basis.
Show threadChawarmaSep 24, 2024
@lucky @gwynnion thank you so much for this meaningful explanation
Show threadNowhere GirlSep 24, 2024

@Chawarma Intersex refers to differences in sex development, which can have a wide variety of presentations and outcomes. "True" human hermaphroditism does not occur. It's a sensitive subject so I'll refer you to the Wikipedia article for more information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

Intersex - Wikipedia

Show threadChawarmaSep 24, 2024
@gwynnion thanks a lot ! I'm gonna check it
Show threadaztecladySep 24, 2024
@gwynnion And they weren't criminalized either, until they were used to benefit trans women.
Show threadMiriam's on Medical LeaveSep 24, 2024
@gwynnion Do you know what vaginoplasty method(s) was/were used for trans patients between 1931-1952?
Show threadNowhere GirlSep 24, 2024
@miriamrobern I believe it was mainly a split thickness skin graft (STSG) following a penectomy and orchiectomy, which occasionally had problems with donor site morbidity, but there are also notes of primitive bowel substitution vaginoplasty being done for trans patients in the 1940s. But only a handful of surgeons were known to do it and then only under heavy secrecy.
Show threadMiriam's on Medical LeaveSep 24, 2024
@gwynnion Danke! :D
Show threadNowhere GirlSep 24, 2024
@miriamrobern You're welcome! I'm sure there's someone who could go into much more detail.
Show threadNowhere GirlSep 24, 2024

@miriamrobern Now that I go back and check myself, I see there were more primitive attempts at vaginoplasty for cis women in the 1870s and a crude version of bowel substitution as early as 1892 based on the following article from the "Urology" journal. So that's neat!

https://www.goldjournal.net/action/showPdf?pii=S0090-4295%2822%2900297-7

Show threadAlon LischinskySep 24, 2024
@gwynnion @miriamrobern you can read a report from one of the surgeons who operated on Dora Richter and Toni Elbe here https://web.archive.org/web/20070502001044/http:/www.symposion.com:80/ijt/ijtc0302.htm
IJ TRANSGENDER - Genital Reassignment on Two Male Transvestites

Show threadMiriam's on Medical LeaveSep 24, 2024
@alischinsky @gwynnion Fascinating; thank you!
Show threadAlon LischinskySep 25, 2024
@miriamrobern happy to help!
Show threadηŸ₯识寻求者Sep 24, 2024
@gwynnion then why invent them?
Show threadkauerSep 25, 2024
@gwynnion not to mention almost all hormonal treatments were developed for other purposes initially.
Show threadCowfishSep 26, 2024
@gwynnion The first trans woman getting vaginoplasty was Dora Richter in 1931.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dora_Richter
Dora Richter - Wikipedia

Show threadKChernecky For DemocracySep 26, 2024
@gwynnion Very interesting. I don't understand repuglicans' neverending obsession with other people's genitalia πŸ€”