Eugen RochkoHappy to be a launch partner of the Social Web Foundation (@swf). Excited to see other organizations being built to push the fediverse forward!
Jérôme Carretero
Evan Prodromou
b-loved dreamer
Syd
Andy Mouse
Condalmo.
Marta Threadbare@Gargron @swf excuse me, but why does fedi need an entrepierner product director, or a product director at all?
@cygnathreadbare @Gargron @swf What a great question!
I think the big thing Tom brings to the Social Web Foundation is a focus on user experience. What makes the Fediverse hard to use? What keeps people from enjoying it to its fullest, or using it to make their lives better and more fulfilling? Tom will be part of all the work we do at the SWF, but he's especially going to focus on tools and plumbing to make being on the Fediverse better.
@cygnathreadbare @Gargron @swf One of the big questions we want to investigate is how people can find and connect to their friends and family on the Fediverse (if they want to). We used to have some pretty good Twitter-based tools for quickly bootstrapping your social graph, but with changes in the Twitter API and its pricing, they really dried up.
AlexTECPlayz@Gargron @[email protected] I gave SWF the benefit of the doubt for a little while to let others dig into it, but SWF doesn't seem good at all for the Fediverse. There's already a lack of transparency.
WHY are there stakeholders? Why is there a team of self-chosen leaders instead of letting the entire 'Fediverse' vote on this? What are the concrete goals of the foundation?
- Where are proposals for some universal moderation tools and functionality that would be integrated in AP and the 'main' AP services such as Mastodon?
- WHO exactly are the stakeholders? What are each stakeholder's % in SWF? (For example, is Meta's stake bigger than Mastodon's?)
- Why are companies known to ignore extremist and hateful content (Meta, Medium) on board? Nothing specifically against Meta working on improving Fedi, but they don't have a great track record, even with the recent Threads release.
@Gargron - Besides E2EE MLS, which is useful for group chats (whose SWF page is nearly empty - https://socialwebfoundation.org/program-protocol-e2ee/), what else is there that SWF brings to the table, and to AP? What about a 1-on-1 E2EE protocol, similar to Signal, that is federated and perhaps compatible with AP?
- "The Social Web Foundation [...] - working with technologists and the public to build a new global town square that works for everyone" has numerous issues:
1. The Fediverse is NOT a global town square. If you want to use this comparison, then Fedi as a whole is the planet, and each instance is its own town square, somewhere on that planet, in their own countries.
2. "a new [...] town square" just gives me the Twitter/X ick. We do not want a Twitter/X sequel.
3. How is SWF working with the public? What have they consulted the public on, besides just dropping this useless website filled with questionable announcements?
4. "a new [...] town square" gives me the centralization ick, for whatever reason.
@Gargron Nice "Fediverse start page" by the way, it's blank (https://socialwebfoundation.org/fediverse-starter-page/). There have been numerous guides that explain what Fedi is, there's no need for another one. Even Threads' explanation of what Fedi is, is sufficient.
It's safe to say that very few people are excited about the SWF. We're more worried it's backed by corporate, greedy companies like Meta that have a bad track record, and this might be an attempt to centralize Fedi in a way or another.
(Eugen, if you're wondering why I'm posting all of this here, it's because you're arguably one of the bigger figures in non-corporate Fedi, plus you're now a partner of the SWF. I don't expect you specifically to answer to any of this, but the SWF account has no post to reply to, and I don't see why I should make these posts standalone, as fewer people would read them.)
Leta_Darnell
Kevin RussellIt means meta and threads are corporate subversives working to destroy democracy structurally and financially, social parasites.
enshittification, corporate tech Bros, Facebook integration, integration with Jack, still with million$ in xitter, no thank you.
No thank you, corrupts the entire fediverse
Looking for better, expecting better.
Luna Lactea@Gargron @kevinrns @swf What it means is that we don't want corporations like Automattic & Facebook to touch fediverse, & Mastodon has a reputation for being overly accepting towards corporations such as those. Those companies have harmed us before, & we're worried that Mastodon will use its popularity to allow them to hurt us again. Even if Mastodon has good intentions by trying to make fediverse bigger & help more people find their way into it, our past experiences tell us that companies like these are going to abuse that. They're going to use the leverage you're giving them to Embrace, Extend, Extinguish, or at least sell us & our data again or harass & silence us again.
@Gargron @kevinrns @swf I personally have had a horrific experience with Facebook singling me out for being homosexual & open about it, then hiding my Instagram account from friends, repeatedly banning me with vague or no reasoning, offering no appeal or explaination, & even going as far as to not let me back into my account once the "temporary" ban was over by giving me a labyrinth of hoops & broken UIs to jump through. That's not even counting the vast amount of my personal information & life that they sold to people I don't know who have no business seeing those things. I'm not the only one to experience this treatment & dehumanization from Facebook, & Facebook isn't the only company to do that to people. We should be more careful of who we give power in our communities & in projects like fediverse. Someone that has abused such power before should not be allowed to have it again, & that includes Facebook & Automattic.
@Gargron @kevinrns @swf Any company is more than welcome to create their own ActivityPub server & begin federating with others, even Facebook, but they should not be given power over the ActivityPub specification or given any place in an organization such as SWF. They should only have power over their own servers, which is the purpose of fediverse.
Also acknowledge that ActivityPub is not the only protocol in use in fediverse. There are also Zot, Diaspora, DFRN, OStatus (which Mastodon used to use as far as I know), & maybe even some things such as WebMentions, XMPP, & Matrix could be considered part of fediverse too despite not connecting to any of the big social networking software. SWF should recognize the other protocols & promote their use as well, they all have their purposes; even the old, outdated, & no longer in use ones can serve to educate creation of newer & better protocols.
Paul Warren
Michel Campillo@Gargron @swf
Il ne faut pas s'emballer, l'intention de Eugen Rochko n'est pas d'ouvrir un compte #Facebook ou #Threads à mon avis 😉 Mastodon aussi bien que la Social Web Foundation adhérent aux principes d'un web social ouvert, décentralisé et interopérable, donc je ne vois rien de choquant dans cette annonce. #SWF
https://michelcampillo.com/blog/7381.html
Il ne faut pas s'emballer, l'intention de Eugen Rochko n'est pas d'ouvrir un compte #Facebook ou #Threads à mon avis 😉 Mastodon aussi bien que la Social Web Foundation adhérent aux principes d'un web social ouvert, décentralisé et interopérable, donc je ne vois rien de choquant dans cette annonce. #SWF
https://michelcampillo.com/blog/7381.html
