Mastodawn

Ricki Yasha Tarr Sep 17, 2024

I'm going to say something unpopular, and if you really don't like it, that's fine, you can block me. I understand.

Just because someone is a cop or served in the military doesn't make them a bad guy. It is illogical to assume that just because someone ends up working in a corrupt system that they are corrupt. There are a million reasons people can work a job. This is akin to telling someone who works in a retail store that they are a responsible for Unregulated Capitalism. Believe me, we want decent people in these places. Police and military aren't going to disappear just because we don't like it. Creating enemies of people, because of circumstances is not only a shit thing to do, it polarizes people against our goals. We remember the people are kind to us. Yes, the system is broken and corrupt, but so are most systems, treating people poorly isn't the answer.

Thomas Franklin William Arnold Sep 17, 2024

@RickiTarr I don't automatically assume all cops are bad, but I do keep in mind that they absolutely *might* be, until I can gauge them. And this is coming from a straight white guy, so I completely understand why people who might be victimized by police are immediately suspicious. But I agree, there are good people who become cops, and we need that.

Ricki Yasha Tarr Sep 17, 2024

@Tom Oh definitely, I try to judge on a person by person basis, but I certainly am wary.

Thomas Franklin William Arnold

@RickiTarr And you know who I blame for that? The police unions. They're the ones who won't let bad cops get fired.

And so they stay on the force, with no accountability, no consequences, and gravitate towards other people who have no business being cops.

And when they realize they can do whatever they want to whomever they want, they *do it*. If bad cops could simply be fired, things would be a million times better. Those people would still be asshole abusers, but they wouldn't have power.

Ricki Yasha Tarr Sep 17, 2024

@Tom YEP! There's no way for it to work in a fair way.

Karin!Sep 17, 2024

@Tom @RickiTarr in my town the good cops are systematically being pushed out. Anyone that exposes any kind of bad behavior by cops is let go shortly after

Thomas Franklin William Arnold Sep 17, 2024

@nirak @RickiTarr Ah yes, the fabled Thin Blue Line. Worried more about protecting even the worst cops than the citizens they take an oath to "protect and serve".

Karen Strickholm Sep 17, 2024

@Tom @nirak @RickiTarr That can be a problem in a m7ltitude of organizations. The same problem can be found in certain schools, hospitals etc.

Professor_Stevens Sep 17, 2024

@KarenStrickholm @Tom @nirak @RickiTarr

That may be, but you can't be arrested, jailed, or subjected to "necessary" force with a club by a nurse or a teacher.

Karen Strickholm Sep 17, 2024

@Professor_Stevens @Tom @nirak @RickiTarr You can be neglected. Verbally and emotionally abused. The point is that strained organizations are poorly functioning organizations. Surely you can see that.

Professor_Stevens Sep 18, 2024

@KarenStrickholm @Tom @nirak @RickiTarr

Please don't talk down to me.

Characterizing police corruption as a result of "strain" to the inability of schools and hospitals to meet the needs of students and patients is a way of making that corruption excusable. It is not excusable.

Karen Strickholm Sep 18, 2024

@Professor_Stevens @Tom @nirak @RickiTarr

You are warping my words and meaning intentionally. Further, instead of engaging in productive exploratory conversation about the problem of police brutality, you have chosen instead to be argumentative and obnoxious. You have earned the indubitable honor of being the first person I am blocking here. There is a place called X, calling your name. Ta-ta.

Professor_Stevens Sep 18, 2024

@[email protected] @Tom @nirak @RickiTarr

Wow. What a touchy person.

Ricki Yasha Tarr Sep 17, 2024

@nirak @Tom Yep, whistle-blowers get completely fucked over

Lazarou Monkey Terror 🚀💙🌈Sep 17, 2024

@RickiTarr @nirak @Tom I have a Good Cop friend and they are doing this to her as well. This is in the UK.
They don't like Good Cops in the Police Force....

Henry Braun Sep 17, 2024

@RickiTarr @nirak @Tom and almost every veteran cop knows of something they should have blown the whistle over but didn’t. Ergo, no good cops.

Professor_Stevens Sep 17, 2024

@hbraun @RickiTarr @nirak @Tom

That's where I come down. The cops who do the evil things are The Bad Cops. The cops who do nothing about the The Bad Cops are also bad cops. Who does that leave?

CJ Paloma Likes Longer Days Sep 17, 2024

@nirak @Tom @RickiTarr this is a very real dynamic in lots of industries- they promote clueless or complicit folks, and good folks saying "wait a minute" are often purposefully isolated and unsupported. Ask me how I know.

In cultures that encourage violence and coercion in a million other small ways, it's never just one thing like police unions, though some dynamics are more effective than others, and that is an effective one.

It's the authoritarian approach in the first place.

DoomsdaysCW Sep 17, 2024

This!!! @Tom @RickiTarr

Michael Bacon Sep 17, 2024

@Tom @RickiTarr Not only do they not let bad cops get fired, they get good cops fired because they reflect poorly on the bad cops.

Nimona RESISTS Sep 17, 2024

@Tom @RickiTarr I'm pro union, but not pro police union.

Karen Strickholm Sep 17, 2024

@Tom @RickiTarr I'd like to see the police keep their union but overhaul it, so bad actors get expelled. I want that union to fight for the best equipment, training and pay. I want our police to be a shining example for the world.

lolonurse Sep 17, 2024

@Tom @RickiTarr
I disagree with this, bc unions do great things for their members. But, like the Supreme Court, governments, & many corporations... if there are no reliable mechanisms for oversight & outcomes, then the bad ones, complicit & cavalier ones will prevail. Law enforcement agencies need as much oversight as courts do. Law officers & non-wartime military personnel can't impact a person's life & family without there being inquiries & consequences. (imo)

Professor_Stevens Sep 17, 2024

@Tom @RickiTarr

Note that the military is not unionized. Police forces are mostly corrupt. The military, not so much.

Thomas Franklin William Arnold Sep 17, 2024

@Professor_Stevens @RickiTarr Police unions are a different animal than other unions. Don't make the mistake of equating them.

Professor_Stevens Sep 18, 2024

@Tom @RickiTarr

Oh, don't worry that I will. I am pro-union. But this item began by lumping cops and soldiers together. I think that was a bad idea. One reason is that the police unions fight like hell to keep bad cops on the job. There's no union at all for soldiers, most of whom are pretty decent folk.

But, yes, important to make clear the most unions don't give cover to bad actors. They have enough to do just fighting with bad employers.

Thomas Franklin William Arnold Sep 18, 2024

@Professor_Stevens @RickiTarr OK, good. I was concerned that you were saying unions = corruption.

Professor_Stevens Sep 18, 2024

@Tom @RickiTarr

Oh my, no. Thanks for the assist!