SenecioSep 8, 2024
Siph 

Attention game devs. Not everybody in the world uses a QWERTY layout. Entire countries use AZERTY for example, and that’s millions of people. While more marginal there’s also a bunch of people using ergonomic layouts. Juggling keyboard layouts is a pain.

If you’re not going to let us rebind keys because you’re convinced you know what’s best for everyone at least use keyboard events that are independent from the layout

Sep 8, 2024 at 8:22amWeb
Show threadM. VerdoneSep 8, 2024

@Siph having done a whole bunch of cross-platform keyboard code, I will go further and say that any game that is testing keys based on their printed characters is doing things very, very wrong.

It's quite easy to use a different API that specifies keys by physically position, and also gets their characters in the current key layout, to document what keys to press.

Show threadDaniel GibsonSep 8, 2024

@sixohsix @Siph
I mostly agree, but OTOH using the key names also has its uses, like "press M to open the Map, I to open the Inventory" and similar

I don't have a good solution, though..

Show threadSiph Sep 8, 2024
@Doomed_Daniel @sixohsix I don’t know, in practice these mnemonics get superseded super quick by muscle memory, we could do away with them in my opinion
Show threadM. VerdoneSep 9, 2024

@Doomed_Daniel @Siph I think using mnemonics has its place for keys that are not used reflexively (e.g. non-movement keys) but it's going to be a pain for the developer to build.

First you have to check that your keyboard has an m key with no modifiers required, then you have to test its position doesn't interfere with existing movement keys. If any of those tests fail you have to come up with an alternative.

M is a pretty safe key, but God forbid you use a number key. The French will murder you.

(Every key idea should be tested on a French keyboard -- it is absurd).

Show threadM. VerdoneSep 9, 2024
@Doomed_Daniel @Siph also don't forget that map is Karte in German and carte in French. So you may want to localize your mnemonic. (Or just keep it as m and privilege English speakers. That's okay, there's no right answer, it all depends on how much effort and time you want to put in. Choices must be made.)
Show threadNatsura Sep 8, 2024
@Siph Forcing people to adapt to one keyboard layout is like if a Indie game developer was like, "Everyone plays games on the Xbox, so I am going to make it so when you want to press the A button to confirm something it will be the B button on a Nintendo controller"... oh wait that's Dark Souls on the Switch >.> FFS
Show threadAnkeSep 8, 2024
@Siph Yup!
German uses qwertz - if a game uses y and x because they are right next to each other, no, they aren't
Show threadEmber is so tired of people. ​Sep 8, 2024
@Siph there's also the inverse, keyboards layouts mapped through the keyboard hardware, where the computer isn't aware of the different layout
Show threadAurin AzadîSep 8, 2024
@Siph Not a dev, so naive question: can they not just check the system's keyboard layout and adapt?
Show threadKlaus SteinSep 8, 2024

@Siph
And we¹ use QUERTZ (Y and Z switched) so games using X and Z for weapons/actions etc are really ugly to play ;-)

__
¹German layout

Show threadDaniel GibsonSep 8, 2024

@Siph
Also: In some layouts, the "console key" (between Esc, Tab and 1) is used for characters you want to be able to type into the console (e.g. quotes on Brazilian keyboards)..

(I like hardcoding Shift+Esc for opening/closing the console. I've first seen that combination in ioquake3, IIRC)