BenRiceMSep 6, 2024

I agree with some of @gruber’s points:
- browser ballot pages are likely confusing for many users; being informed of choice != being forced to make a choice
- the EU should more in conversation with Apple about what features are non-compliant

But it misses the forest for the trees:
Apple holds ungodly amount of power over many aspects of daily life. Banking, grocery shopping, dating, communication, art and culture are all mediated by our phones
https://mastodon.social/@daringfireball/113091446183508943

Show threadJohn GruberSep 6, 2024
@BenRiceM Putting aside the argument that those things are better under Apple's App Store control than they were before or would be without (at least banking, grocery shopping, and communication -- I can't speak to dating in recent decades), the DMA, thus far, has reduced absolutely none of Apple's control other than being able to play Fortnite on iOS devices in the EU again.
Show threadCasey LissSep 6, 2024
@gruber @BenRiceM Delta has entered the chat.
Show threadJohn GruberSep 7, 2024
@caseyliss @BenRiceM The DMA resulting in Apple reconsidering its policy on game emulators is a happy side effect, but the fact is we have Delta in the App Store now. And I think if you asked Vestager for 100 goals of the DMA, “game emulators in the App Store" wouldn't have made the list.
Show threadCasey LissSep 7, 2024

@gruber @BenRiceM Sure, but I _do_ think the goal is “ensure Apple’s customers more choice and stop Apple from standing in their way”.

If that's the ultimate goal — regardless of the _how_ — then I think the DMA is [marginally] successful so far.

Show threadJaime CreixemsSep 7, 2024

@caseyliss @gruber @BenRiceM but it’s not.

I don’t have the choice to mirror my phone to my Mac.

I don’t have the choice to have an assistant the understand my personal context.

But I can install Fortnite, I guess.

I’m getting a worse product than the rest of the world gets, and have no choice over that.

Show threadSylvain G.Sep 7, 2024
@webjac @caseyliss @gruber @BenRiceM oh please. Eu is a false excuse here. Apple already announced that Apple Intelligence would not be ready until next year. This year is an English-only beta for US only. They just put the blame on Eu for a choice they made. You won’t sell me that this is not a way to make customers angry on Eu
Show threadJaime CreixemsSep 7, 2024

@sgamel @caseyliss @gruber @BenRiceM

But the fact of the matter is that I could have had these features, this year, and now I can't. And both the experience and the product (that I pay an extra +20% tax here in Europe) is worse than I would get in the US where it would be cheaper and better.

Good job, EC and "thanks" Apple :/

Show threadBenRiceMSep 7, 2024

@webjac I know it’s not really the point you’re making, but my hopes are not especially high for Apple Intelligence. I don’t think it’s going to be a panacea and Siri will still be a frustrating mess in even more unpredictable ways.

I was excited for Mail and Messages summaries, but I’ve already heard a few complain that they’re not reliable enough

Show threadJaime CreixemsSep 7, 2024

@BenRiceM imagine if the DMA was there when Handoff started, when the Apple Watch launched.

Apple is a lot about the integrated ecosystem. The DMA, however well intentioned it might be, threatens that.

And while I’m all for more options, more app stores, more choice… it doesn’t matter if the integrated ecosystem experience gets thwarted.

That’s why I’m being so intense on it, so “against” it.

I’m actually in favor of the spirit behind the DMA, but not at the expense of the ecosystem.

Show threadBenRiceM

@webjac I totally get that being left out/behind sucks. As a developer I’d like to have access to Apple Intelligence more than as a user.

But I also think it would have awesome if products like the Pebble watch could have competed fairly against the Apple Watch! Imagine how much more exciting that whole product category could have been.

Not that I have any love for Humane, but their Pin would have been a lot more compelling if it could integrate with your phone as well as an Apple Watch

Sep 7, 2024 at 7:46amIvory for iOS
Show threadJaime CreixemsSep 7, 2024

@BenRiceM I agree. I wish they would open up and let others compete in their ecosystem.

But that’s so un-Appley. One of their longest running themes has been that integration and closed-ness. They have never allowed too much customization to users, they have never been too open with their ecosystems.

It’s one of the core feats they use to differentiate their products.

It’s basically asking Apple to Androidify iOS: be more open, allow access to all APIs.

Show threadJaime CreixemsSep 7, 2024

@BenRiceM and I see why they don’t like that…

Look at Windows or Android. Definitely worsely designed and less enjoyable experiences, less consistency, more of a mess.

It’s an impossible trade off in design.. allow all customizations and still offer a cohesive, delightful, pleasant experience.

Apple has always been on the good UX side first and on the openness after. It’s kind of their thing.