#Trump’s atty pleaded not guilty on the schmuck’s behalf.
Via Katie Phang: Gov.t: We were thinking a comprehensive brief where we would set forth the facts. That part of the brief wd incl things that are in & outside the indictment. We blv the brief wd have a substant # of exhibits. That cd incl grand jury transcripts, docs, etc. That wd allow court to consider all relevant facts needed to make immunity decisions. We would lay out why the conduct in brief is private & not subject to immunity.
2/ Chutkan: So at this point, you wouldn’t anticip proffering any actual evidence. It would be written submissions & if I feel like I need further evid we would discuss that?
Govt.:Correct. At conclusion of briefing we can have that discussion or court can order hearing or witness testim. We have begun writing opening brief, but anticip it wd take about 2-3 wks to complete.
We want to leave the date to court’s discretion, but a deadline for the government’s brief in late Sept would be good
3/ I’m posting these out of order.
Klasfeld:
Lauro calls the prosecution's proposal "enormously prejudicial" to Trump.
After Lauro claims that SCOTUS found Trump's conversations with Pence were official, Chutkan cuts him off: "No, I would have to disagree with you. They have sent it back to me to figure that out."
4/ Pagliery with color as always:
It's too bad I can't take any pictures
to analyze.
Trump defense lawyer Todd Blanche always wears incredibly tight suits, and fellow attorney John F. Lauro has his jacket cut so tight the sides are straining.
5/ Via Zoe Tillman:
Chutkan: Good morning, it's been almost a year. (she quips that Trump lawyer John Lauro looks "rested")
Lauro responds to the effect of, life was almost meaningless without seeing you
Chutkan: "Enjoy it while it lasts"
6/ Josh Gerstein with the short version of this convo:
John Lauro is scrapping now a bit with Chutkan about the schedule. He says is a deeply unfair to use an "asymmetrical" process where the government goes first.
7/ Via Klasfeld:
The defense argues that Chutkan should find Trump's conversations with Pence official as a matter of law, but Chutkan says that she risks "reversal" if she does so in light of the SCOTUS ruling.
Chutkan (wryly): "I mean, I'm risking reversal no matter what I do."
Chutkan notes that SCOTUS ordered her to resolve the remaining immunity issues "forthwith."
She presses Lauro on why the defense is asking her to review their other motions first.
8/ Phang:
Chutkan to Trump lawyer, John Lauro: If I give the special counsel the time they’re asking for, the three weeks, why can’t you discuss discovery that you haven’t been given that relates to immunity?
“We can all walk and chew gum at the same time.”
Lauro: We need everything that we’re entitled to before we address these issues. The Supreme Court has already decided that the conversations between Trump and Pence is an official act.
Chutkan: Respectfully I disagree.
9/ Phang:
Chutkan: One of the things I have to decide is whether based on facts presented to me by the government if those conversations are outside the bounds of immunity.
“How do they overcome it without an evidentiary proffer?"
10/ Phang:
Chutkan: So you want witnesses and testimony and cross examination?
Lauro: Ultimately we do want that. But first we have to deal with these issues.
We want a process where we’re entitled to full and fair discovery and then we go first and argue our motion to dismiss.
“We feel your honor is going to dismiss this indictment after you hear from us in our motion papers."
12/ Sorry folks, I’m threading what I can before I leave, so spotty.
Phang:
Chutkan: Let's discuss this “sensitive time." I’ve said before, the election is not relevant here.
“This court is not concerned with the electoral schedule."
If you’re talking about the timing of legal issues with relation to when the election is, that's not something I'm going to consider.
“Oh I am definitely not getting drawn into an election dispute."
13/ I’ve missed a lot, but giving you bits and pieces.
Phang:
Lauro: We have outstanding issues that we will bring to their attention, but we need that discovery.
“What is the rush to judgment that the special counsel is suggesting?” That’s exactly the problem that the supreme court recognized in its opinion.
Chutkan: “We can’t even contemplate a trial date due to the looming appellate issues."
We have had a year of delay and there needs to be some forward motion in this case.
14/ Phang:
Chutkan: When the supreme court considered this case they had the indictment and if they thought it was permeated with issues that required dismissal they could have done it themselves.
15/ Lauro: the court can decide whether Trump’s conversations with Mike Pence are immune as a legal issue based on a defense motion to dismiss.
We need the discovery that we’ve requested. There’s discovery we still don't have access to due to technical issues.
In fact we’re still getting discovery. We got discovery throughout the period when the case was stayed. “We’re being put in an incredibly unfair position for no reason at all."
16/ Lauro: We’re talking about the presidency of the united States.
Chutkan: I’m not talking about the presidency, I’m talking about a four count indictment.
“It strikes me that what you’re trying to do is affect the presentation of evidence in this case as to not impinge on an election."
17/ Govt: There’s no additional discovery that we anticipate. Two days ago prosecutors provided the defense with all the grand jury material related to the superseding indictment.
Second point, the motion to dismiss the defense says that should happen regarding the Pence allegations, the supreme court’s decision was all about doing a fact analysis of all of this.
It would be impossible to make those determinations without looking at all of the evidence that the grand jury looked at.
18/ Did I mention I love Chutkan so far?
Lauro back up briefly to respond.
Chutkan: "I don’t need any more rhetoric on how sensitive this is."
Lauro: It’s not rhetoric, it’s a legal argument.
19/ Chutkan: Why can’t the gov file its opening brief, just considering the Pence stuff, and I rule on that issue alone. Why does it have to be piecemeal.
Lauro: If you decide the Pence stuff first it could end the case right then and there. Why waste all this time on months of briefing.
20/ Chutkan: The deadline for filing a motion like this has already passed.
Chutkan: You want to file this because there’s dicta in a concurrence. There’s binding DC Circuit precedent in this issue and you have a concurrence and an opinion written by another district judge which this court “doesn’t find persuasive."
Lauro: When you read Justice Thomas’ concurrence he’s telling us to file this motion.
@GottaLaff
Interesting.
Trump's attorney explicitly saying that Thomas is giving guidance on how to appeal the case.
It's exactly why #SCOTUS judges normally address only the case in front of them. Here, "Justice" Thomas openly speculates on other, unbriefed topics in a concurrence.
Judges that "couldn't possibly speculate" when in Senate confirmation hearings, shouldn't be blurting out such opinions in other cases (or in private FedSoc dinners)
@josh0 @GottaLaff
More likely Thomas has been waiting 30 years for unfettered rightwing control of the SCOTUS and he's going to burn it all down.
IMHO, he's not planning on going anywhere now.
@GottaLaff @TCatInReality if we win a trifecta, hopefully…
Or if there’s an as-yet unrevealed investigation that’s likely to find something particularly damning.
Wishful thinking, I know.
@GottaLaff @josh0
I've given up speculation and ignore the polls. I'm using all my energy to make sure we get a #BlueTrifecta and flip/protect a few states.
With #Harris and a #NewWayForward , it's all to play for.
@GottaLaff @josh0
Is it the GOP troublemakers in the counting and certification process? That has me worried.
But i can't do anything about that. The Dems and Marc Elias seem well aware of the danger and seem to be ready to fight it.
If any other readers are in Red states, please consider helping at the polls.
Laffy
TC Won't Give In To Lies
Josh 