My new tablet came! I am so excited. I just know I'm going to hate this thing <3
Well, so far it's actually pretty good, except for the part when I tried logging in to my Google account and it crashed and left the device in a seemingly permanent inoperable state

- Can't log into Google; the Google service is fucked somehow. Need to reboot the tablet.

- Can't reboot the tablet because in new Android, Google has hijacked the "turn off" button to launch the Assistant instead.

- Can't turn off the Assistant because it won't let you turn off the Assistant unless you first sign into Google.

After rebooting, I have now successfully logged into Google. Now I want to turn off the Assistant.

I go into the Google app.
I tap the profile icon.
I tap "settings".
Nothing happens.

I tap the profile app again.
I tap the "settings" app again.
Nothing happens.

Often, when using Android products, I find myself wondering whether Google is aware that Android exists, or the device vendor aware that they are selling an Android device

What is this called, and how do I disable it? It is not "Discover". I already disabled that.

Willing to resort to ADB but only if necessary.

Also, what application do you, reading this, recommend for reading comics on an Android tablet, if those comics are "free floating" (PDFs from itch or something) and not part of a service? I am willing to listen to suggestions for other software to install on my PC local servers etc if it would support this (for example for loading the comics on) as long as it doesn't require an Apple product. This is an explicit invitation to be a reply person?
The mystery tab is the "Entertainment Space". I can disable it by long pressing the home screen and going into home screen settings.
What fresh Flat hell is this
Android 14 on this device is really, really, *really* janky. Like "this is a beta OS" levels of jank. I have found three different ways to get apps to go into GUI death, go in weird states where there are like gray lines that swiping causes the gray lines to move up or down, blank white boxes where interface elements otherwise would be

Here's my current bit of hell. The button bar has been changed into a "taskbar". The critical android navigation buttons get shunted to the side. (Which side is not consistent; it flips left and right at seeming random.) The additional space is taken up by little app icons, like the iOS dock.

What makes this unacceptable is *the side shunted navigation buttons vary*. On the home screen, they're centered like normal.

**The navigation buttons simulate physical buttons. They should NEVER move.**

Sources on Internet claim under Settings->Display there's a setting to turn off "Taskbar". It's not present on my system. So I think: Maybe I can just remove all the items from the bar. I find settings for "show recent apps in taskbar" and "recommended apps in taskbar". I disable them. That leaves only the "quick launch" bar from the home screen. I try removing all the icons from that.

*The quick launch bar, and the "taskbar", grow a noninteractive gray square in the space where apps would go*

So I have a non-optional bar at the bottom of the screen. What is the purpose of the bar? To contain a noninteractive gray square. Why is the noninteractive gray square there? Because otherwise the bar at the bottom of the screen would be empty. This is Android's Emotional Support Square.

Meanwhile, the Android nav buttons, to accommodate this, move randomly between left, right & center. I cannot use the Android nav buttons, *critical for basic use of the device*, without looking at the screen.

In my entirely sincere, non-joking opinion, any GUI that I have to look at in order to use is a bad GUI.

I should be able to use any computer program by just clicking and tapping on things, without having to look to see whether the things are there or not.

So here's where it gets bugfuck. Unable to use the nav bar because Google has decided it must randomly move around as a minigame, I sadly enable gestures.

A gray bar appears at the bottom of my screen.

To show me where to do the gestures.

I only??? Enabled??? Gestures???? In the first place?????? To make a gray bar at the bottom of the screen go away???????????

Why is this here??? No, I know why this is here. It's here because the iPhone has it. The iPhone put at the bar at the bottom of the screen, and the execs at Google who decide what goes in Android don't *use* Android, they have iPhones, so the only direction anyone on Android gets is "make it look like my iPhone". And once it looks like their iPhones, they have no further extra concerns, such as "is it pleasant to use?" "Do the users mind a permanent, pointless gray mark defacing their screen?"
I. Want. To. Read. Books. This tablet is not a computer. This tablet is a book. My family has purchased books which are locked in the Amazon ecosystem. I want to read the books using a book interface, that is, I want a rectangle with words and/or images on it. I don't want a rounded rect or a circle. I don't want holes in my book. I don't want it to be defaced with black marks, or blank gray boxes containing blank white boxes, or a little bar containing the time. I just want a book.
How much of a problem this is depends on what app I'm in. Kindle (left), blessedly, puts black bars at the top and bottom and disables the clock bar and anti-navigation bar at the bottom, so I get what I want: a rectangle.. But say, Shonen Jump (right) doesn't, so I get a jangle of bars of various sizes and colors, and the screenshot doesn't capture this but the top bar has a clock, battery, wifi strength, and for no reason whatsoever, three dots and a triangle (these do nothing)
Although I like this form factor better than the Fire I was considering getting instead (I wish it were 8x11 sized instead of 16x9 sized, but the larger size is better for my eyes), I'm at this moment considering returning this simply to avoid the gray bar at the bottom of the screen. Apparently if you buy a tablet from *Google*, there's a "disable taskbar" feature in the Settings. Lenovo, for no reason anyone understands, removed this. Check Google and you'll find hundreds of annoyed comments.

This is surprising to me. Based on my experience with their Windows PCs, I assumed Lenovo would be a v basic Android OEM and not fuck with shit like, say, Samsung would. In fact, the Settings on this device claims it isn't even running Android, but "Lenovo ZUI 16.0.070 Stable". This appears to be just Android, but with pen support (the pen support is nice) and *multiple* missing features in the settings (not just the taskbar).

I was expecting Lenovo to disappoint me but wasn't expecting *that*.

Based on that, despite again the form factor and weight distribution and price all being quite good, I currently recommend avoiding the Lenovo Tab M11, because in addition to their Android repackaging being very buggy in strange ways they just fucking delete shit out of Android at random, and how are you supposed to predict whether one of the things they deleted is one of the things you depend on?

I guess tomorrow I'll try to see how much of a normal Android experience I can recreate using ADB.

Ok, I'm complaining a lot but one last thing. I want to show you what I mean by Lenovo's patched Android being "Buggy".

I bring down Quick Settings. There's a little "edit" button in the corner. I want to configure my Q.S., so I tap it (it's small, it takes a couple tries). This takes me to

A gray line.

Q.S. is replaced with a gray line. I can move it down and up but I can't go back. I can no longer access Q.S. or my notifications. The only way to get out of this state is to *reboot*. Really.

As you can see in the video, closing + reopening the quick settings/notification shade doesn't fix it. Only reboot fixes it.

Nowwww, I guess I should admit: While experimenting with this, I found it's not an out of box behavior of the edit button. Rather, it is specific to "disable animations" accessibility mode, which I run enabled. So this is *less* of a jaw-dropping QA process slip than it appears.

But wow! "Enabling accessibility options can softlock the OS" is kinda a bad failure mode!!

UPDATE: Ahh… well as you can see I got my tablet problems fixed. This is great

Okay one thing I will say about this damn Tab M11 is that the speaker is actually *quite* good. This might just be my primary way of listening to Tidal now.

Bass stood up mediocre at best to the Roni Size Matter of Fact test but eh, what do you expect

Okay so going at the "can I get the NORMAL NAV BUTTONS INSTEAD OF HAVING THEM REPEATEDLY MOVE LEFT AND RIGHT" problem (which I really might just return this tablet if I can't figure it out) now

It's hard to search for because tons of people try to enable the taskbar on a *phone* but I appear the first person to want to *disable* it, I assume because I'm the first person who cares about computers who has ever purchased an Android tablet. Possibly the first person to buy an Android tablet period.

Also on every tablet NOT made by lenovo, there's just plain a "disable taskbar" option. So why would anyone be asking about this.

The closest to people asking about this are all Samsung users who say they fixed a problem similar to this with the "Good Lock" app. But that is Samsung exclusive?

I do some checks with adb shell settings list (https://gist.github.com/mcclure/47341511a2b91a1e64eb8a61b2f9ac4a) I find two settings in the "system" namespace that look germane but aren't it, and three mystery settings in the "secure" namespace

android.txt

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Gist
The two settings in "global" are the ones that Lenovo exposes to me— they're already off and aren't important. I guess the most helpful thing here would be if someone with a non-Lenovo Android tablet could try doing `adb shell settings list system` and `adb shell settings list secure` before and after toggling the Settings ➜ Display ➜ Taskbar option, and diffing the results. (Or just grepping both for "task" and eyeballing it.) However this seems unlikely since again, nobody uses Android tablets

@mcc I have a Galaxy Tab. I can get you some adb output dumps. Just give me the exact step-by-step (including where to install any apps from, any settings to configure, etc) and I'll get it done in the next 24hrs

Why? Because with great QA experience comes great QA responsibility :D

@neatchee Thank you very much, I appreciate it.

https://gist.github.com/mcclure/75007673c786c8b5657d40fb5ad77a56

Note: I assume you're running Android 13 or Android 14, and I assume you already know how to set up adb, how to confirm with `adb devices` etc. The instructions also assume a Linux system, but if you are on Windows I can make modified instructions.

If the screenshot from step 3 turns out to look different from how I expected, I might ask you to try again. I don't have a local copy of the UI to compare.

android.md

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Gist

@mcc I repeated the steps multiple times, even using three different tools for diffing just to be extra sure (powershell Compare-Objects, linux diff, and Sublime-Text's FileDiffs extension), and unfortunately there is no difference between the outputs of either 'system' or 'secure' with the taskbar enabled vs disabled on my Galaxy Tab S7+ (SM-T970)

Screencaps and SHA256 hashes attached for good measure

@mcc Let me know if there any other set of output I can grab for you! Happy to help :) I'm a long-time android enthusiast (used to contribute to LineageOS back when it was Cyanogenmod) so this stuff is fun for me and familiar territory :D
×

What is this called, and how do I disable it? It is not "Discover". I already disabled that.

Willing to resort to ADB but only if necessary.

Also, what application do you, reading this, recommend for reading comics on an Android tablet, if those comics are "free floating" (PDFs from itch or something) and not part of a service? I am willing to listen to suggestions for other software to install on my PC local servers etc if it would support this (for example for loading the comics on) as long as it doesn't require an Apple product. This is an explicit invitation to be a reply person?
The mystery tab is the "Entertainment Space". I can disable it by long pressing the home screen and going into home screen settings.
What fresh Flat hell is this
Android 14 on this device is really, really, *really* janky. Like "this is a beta OS" levels of jank. I have found three different ways to get apps to go into GUI death, go in weird states where there are like gray lines that swiping causes the gray lines to move up or down, blank white boxes where interface elements otherwise would be

Here's my current bit of hell. The button bar has been changed into a "taskbar". The critical android navigation buttons get shunted to the side. (Which side is not consistent; it flips left and right at seeming random.) The additional space is taken up by little app icons, like the iOS dock.

What makes this unacceptable is *the side shunted navigation buttons vary*. On the home screen, they're centered like normal.

**The navigation buttons simulate physical buttons. They should NEVER move.**

Sources on Internet claim under Settings->Display there's a setting to turn off "Taskbar". It's not present on my system. So I think: Maybe I can just remove all the items from the bar. I find settings for "show recent apps in taskbar" and "recommended apps in taskbar". I disable them. That leaves only the "quick launch" bar from the home screen. I try removing all the icons from that.

*The quick launch bar, and the "taskbar", grow a noninteractive gray square in the space where apps would go*

So I have a non-optional bar at the bottom of the screen. What is the purpose of the bar? To contain a noninteractive gray square. Why is the noninteractive gray square there? Because otherwise the bar at the bottom of the screen would be empty. This is Android's Emotional Support Square.

Meanwhile, the Android nav buttons, to accommodate this, move randomly between left, right & center. I cannot use the Android nav buttons, *critical for basic use of the device*, without looking at the screen.

In my entirely sincere, non-joking opinion, any GUI that I have to look at in order to use is a bad GUI.

I should be able to use any computer program by just clicking and tapping on things, without having to look to see whether the things are there or not.

So here's where it gets bugfuck. Unable to use the nav bar because Google has decided it must randomly move around as a minigame, I sadly enable gestures.

A gray bar appears at the bottom of my screen.

To show me where to do the gestures.

I only??? Enabled??? Gestures???? In the first place?????? To make a gray bar at the bottom of the screen go away???????????

Why is this here??? No, I know why this is here. It's here because the iPhone has it. The iPhone put at the bar at the bottom of the screen, and the execs at Google who decide what goes in Android don't *use* Android, they have iPhones, so the only direction anyone on Android gets is "make it look like my iPhone". And once it looks like their iPhones, they have no further extra concerns, such as "is it pleasant to use?" "Do the users mind a permanent, pointless gray mark defacing their screen?"
I. Want. To. Read. Books. This tablet is not a computer. This tablet is a book. My family has purchased books which are locked in the Amazon ecosystem. I want to read the books using a book interface, that is, I want a rectangle with words and/or images on it. I don't want a rounded rect or a circle. I don't want holes in my book. I don't want it to be defaced with black marks, or blank gray boxes containing blank white boxes, or a little bar containing the time. I just want a book.
How much of a problem this is depends on what app I'm in. Kindle (left), blessedly, puts black bars at the top and bottom and disables the clock bar and anti-navigation bar at the bottom, so I get what I want: a rectangle.. But say, Shonen Jump (right) doesn't, so I get a jangle of bars of various sizes and colors, and the screenshot doesn't capture this but the top bar has a clock, battery, wifi strength, and for no reason whatsoever, three dots and a triangle (these do nothing)
Although I like this form factor better than the Fire I was considering getting instead (I wish it were 8x11 sized instead of 16x9 sized, but the larger size is better for my eyes), I'm at this moment considering returning this simply to avoid the gray bar at the bottom of the screen. Apparently if you buy a tablet from *Google*, there's a "disable taskbar" feature in the Settings. Lenovo, for no reason anyone understands, removed this. Check Google and you'll find hundreds of annoyed comments.

This is surprising to me. Based on my experience with their Windows PCs, I assumed Lenovo would be a v basic Android OEM and not fuck with shit like, say, Samsung would. In fact, the Settings on this device claims it isn't even running Android, but "Lenovo ZUI 16.0.070 Stable". This appears to be just Android, but with pen support (the pen support is nice) and *multiple* missing features in the settings (not just the taskbar).

I was expecting Lenovo to disappoint me but wasn't expecting *that*.

Based on that, despite again the form factor and weight distribution and price all being quite good, I currently recommend avoiding the Lenovo Tab M11, because in addition to their Android repackaging being very buggy in strange ways they just fucking delete shit out of Android at random, and how are you supposed to predict whether one of the things they deleted is one of the things you depend on?

I guess tomorrow I'll try to see how much of a normal Android experience I can recreate using ADB.

Ok, I'm complaining a lot but one last thing. I want to show you what I mean by Lenovo's patched Android being "Buggy".

I bring down Quick Settings. There's a little "edit" button in the corner. I want to configure my Q.S., so I tap it (it's small, it takes a couple tries). This takes me to

A gray line.

Q.S. is replaced with a gray line. I can move it down and up but I can't go back. I can no longer access Q.S. or my notifications. The only way to get out of this state is to *reboot*. Really.

As you can see in the video, closing + reopening the quick settings/notification shade doesn't fix it. Only reboot fixes it.

Nowwww, I guess I should admit: While experimenting with this, I found it's not an out of box behavior of the edit button. Rather, it is specific to "disable animations" accessibility mode, which I run enabled. So this is *less* of a jaw-dropping QA process slip than it appears.

But wow! "Enabling accessibility options can softlock the OS" is kinda a bad failure mode!!

UPDATE: Ahh… well as you can see I got my tablet problems fixed. This is great
@mcc I haven't thought about that manga in *ages*.
@greyduck comic store near me had someone order the complete collection then cancel after it arrived so they let me buy it off them at a discount just so they wouldn't have to enter the SKU into inventory. it rules actually. perfect vintage material
@mcc I mean honestly if Lenovo's already deleting random settings they probably should have gotten that one

@modulusshift there may actually be a link where Lenovo removing settings is due to Lenovo realizing they lack the resources to QA all of those settings.

Or maybe the bug is present on stock Google Android also. I haven't checked.

@mcc @modulusshift it seems to work properly for me on stock Android, fwiw.

@mcc They move to whichever side you tapped in their little area of last, in my experience. And the taskbar doesn't show active apps, it's a quick launch bar with a maximum of seven icons.

It's the worst.

@SymTrkl On my system there is an option for it to show active apps.

@mcc I might have turned that off and forgot about it. I also can't edit the pinned apps in Nova Launcher, I have to switch back into whatever bullshit Lenovo shipped on my tablet.

But I'm not mad or anything. 

@SymTrkl This is very disappointing, I assumed Lenovo would be a "low modifications" Android OEM.

@mcc It feels close to AOSP, but that doesn't make it good unfortunately.

But as a second screen to run YouTube ReVanced, it works pretty dang well at least.

@mcc @SymTrkl This is worse than One UI, which is something I never expected to say.
@mcc "make it look like iOS but don't make it obvious"
@mcc its called "Material You"
@whitequark @mcc until i saw the sparkles i would have thought it was “apple”
@hikari @whitequark @mcc oh my god it looks like a chinese knockoff ios 7
@alice @hikari @whitequark I was going to say "Actually the stuff I'm seeing out of Xaomi has been kinda good lately—" but then I double check and oh.
@whitequark "Material you didn't actually need labels on your buttons did you"
@mcc @whitequark only graduates from Material U know how to operate these
@mcc a perfectly modern and usable interface
@mcc at least the asteroids ship is enabled
@mcc that's the lucky charms menu

@aeva @mcc I always enjoyed the term "mystery meat menu" from Web Pages that Suck for menus consisting entirely of inscrutable symbols

sadly that site appears to have seen no updates in about a decade now 😔

@mcc I use PerfectViewer (and prefer the CBZ/CBR comic book format to PDF, but PV can handle PDF too)
@oblomov Needs a plugin for PDF support IIRC but it's easy to get. @mcc
@mcc extra info and link: reading PDFs in PV requires a plugin. Both PV and the PDF plugin are free and available on the store
https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Rookie001&hl=en
One of the nifty features of PV for me is its built-in ability to access remote storage (both SMB and NFS, IIRC, but been a while since I last configured it so I may be remembering wrong)
Android Apps by Rookie001 on Google Play

Enjoy millions of the latest Android apps, games, music, movies, TV, books, magazines & more. Anytime, anywhere, across your devices.

@oblomov @mcc Cool! I was meaning to try out some cbr/cbz viewers on my tablet. Perfect Viewer looks good so far. Took a few minutes to get through the annoying setup wizard and find other preferences I wanted to change, but at least it's _very_ configurable and let me set stuff up how I like it.

Look what happened when I changed the background colour to black: Ta-da, square corners!

That said, for PDFs on local storage I'd just use my regular ebook viewer, because why not?

@nex
Off Topic, but is that XIII?
@oblomov Yup! Been meaning to read that for ages, because I've played the video game adaptation a couple times, and that tells only the first half of the story. (It didn't sell well and they never made the sequel ☹️)
@nex I think I'm one of the 6 other people who liked that game!
@mcc is this android? it might be a "notification bubble"
@mcc ah yes sorry just scrolled up, go to the app's notification settings and see if "bubbles" are allowed
@nasser it's not a bubble, it's a tab you pull and it asks if you want to rent a movie from Google
@mcc
humanity: google please just make a mobile os
google: what if instead heres a tab you pull and it asks you if you want to rent a movie 😈

@mcc @nasser

This thread has completely quashed any desire of my getting another tablet.

I thought it might be time to go back but just... No. I'm not doing all of this.

Sincere good luck at you!

@401matthall @nasser Maybe if you buy from Google directly it will result in less Google bullshit?

Wait, that doesn't make sense…