tekakutli
Fediverse Symbol ⁂A manifesto for ⁂ as a symbol for the fediverse
https://symbol.fediverse.info/
https://symbol.fediverse.info/
Скобиформ 
🇪🇺
@FediverseSymbol I like the old pentagram.
AnneTheWriterDitto. I was even able to customize it for a blog about #Threads joining the #Fediverse .
The three asterisks seem rather small and not as interconnected as the original rainbow pentagram. I think the pentagram works better as an illustration of how the Fediverse works. The three asterisks are not really connected, they're just kind of floating there.
Is the reason for your proposed "logo change" that there is no emoji for it? Because it would be easier to create an emoji and get Apple & Android to add it to the #emojis library, than to change a symbol over 15 million people have been using.
Also, I think @FediTips and similar accounts would want to give feedback about it. They use it as their symbol.
Pierre Carrier"a symbol over 15 million people have been using" ← 15 million people have been using the pentagram to mean the fediverse? Sorry to doubt you, but how did you arrive at that number? It's the first I see it used so.
Draken BlackKnight@pc
I don't know what you're talking about. I've been seeing this since I started several years ago on another instance.
I don't know what you're talking about. I've been seeing this since I started several years ago on another instance.
@drakenblackknight I don't question that it's been used, just surprised 15 million people used it.
iykury@AnneTheWriter1 @scobiform @FediverseSymbol the unicode consortium is in charge of creating new emoji, not apple or google
Mester⁂@scobiform @FediverseSymbol The old pentagram only sees well in some big scale but the asterism is some boring
Migrated to @
jon r@FediverseSymbol Nice symbol. Do you also have a proposal to replace the term Fediverse? I know many people, me included, who don't want to or cannot use it as a term in political debates, myself included.
Social Web was once one proposal, Open Socials is another. Maybe you've heard of other alternative naming that is more accessible in its name does not put the effort into a niche?
raphaël ⁂ bastide@yala @FediverseSymbol Can you elaborate on what is the problem of “fediverse”?
lunchy
Snaked57@lunch @raphael @yala @FediverseSymbol I assume it's that "fed", and "confederation", have specific connotations, at least in USA politics (not sure about if that even carries over elsewhere)
Now that the discussion has settled a bit, I'm able to return here for more elaboration.
I'm drawing in my criticism from previous conversations and personal experience. Let me start with the latter.
At first, the -verse suffix is an anglism and only contributes to the hegemonial project of global harmonisation and hegemony of americanised culture. Native speakers or those that don't speak other languages may not be aware.
Then there is the … 1/
childish suffix of the prefix, the -i in Fedi. It's a diminutive that makes it sound like a toy from the queer nerds to tinker and play with, but not like a reliable infrastructure for society to uphold democracy and diverse discourse.
Attention: Here I'm not saying that I'm trying to eradicate the queer history of creating self-governed online spaces for autonomous organisation of oppressed communities. I am talking about how the term can be used effectively in talking with regular people … /2
to transport a semantic component that produces respect and understanding for the technical achievement, while leaning in to how people are going to use it.
Which brings us to the prefix fed-. It has been said in other places, that it has very specific connotations in the anglican language space, but this is even irrelevant for the international context. Here, as exemplified above, we are pushing a syntactic element from a specific language into a global conversation, which is already … /3
dominated by said language.
While those who know what federation means and who actually care will still be able to eventually coincide the term with the meaning, again, regular people will most probably not dare to care. They are those people, who just use technology and whom we serve as being developers and providers for them.
I'm not going to be able to explain to my parents what a fantastic thing a Fediverse is, but maybe what the social web is ("Like email!") and that it is … /4
constituted by the acts and resources mobilised by people in self-relying, "autonomous" communities which choose to talk to each other.
Fediverse as a term leans in to a naming scheme, which may be established in the English speaking world, but can appear very random to non-natives. Esp. those who have not consumed much anglican cultural produce in their lives and are not used to this linguistic practice.
The neighbourhood with Metaverse also puts it into the corner of shiny marketing terms /5
which are used as a stand-in for the actual thing at play. And that is not the technical implementation ("federation"), not a childish diminutive to make it appear more appealing and also not an anonymous, ungraspable space of infinite expanse.
In Marxist terms, it's still a material infrastructure (means of production) that is produced by actual people and communities (modes of production). It's easy to forget, because our society relies on the fetish of the commodity to sell goods. Knowing /6
this we can adapt.
With my rejection of the term I am marking a position in the discourse. I am not needing to provide an answer to the supposed problem. But maybe I was giving enough good _reasons_ for why _using_ the term Fediverse is much harder than looking at its artifacts, the word and the thing it describes.
It's just not a useful vessel in many situations, where other aliases are needed.
There are more discussions like this:
- https://mastodon.social/@shoq/112747784490547334
- https://tldr.nettime.org/@tante/113000024186013430
6/6
tante (@[email protected])
@[email protected] It's a name that sounds dumb and is overloaded with so much historic baggage and toxic patterns of behavior that I don't want it to stick around. I want something to emerge from its ashes.
Greg@yala you know, you can just say "I think it sounds dumb" without attempting to shoehorn 5000 words of misused leftist language into an argument
⁂Krafty⁂ #NoKings@yala it's not that deep man. I don't know why you felt it necessary to literally bring sexuality and race into an argument about the word Fediverse. If these are the kinds of arguments against the name then I don't think it's gonna be changing any time soon.
Earthworm 🐌I don't know if the name is the most urgent/important issue of the (still) fediverse.
But I think it is interesting to discuss. I never understood how much effort is put into logos and other stuff, but apparently, many people think it matters. And although I don't feel the same, I have to consider that they might be right (corporations and politicians wouldn't invest so many resources if it wasn't important).
+1 for mentioning that the anglo-american dominance of social media is an issue we have to deal with
So, in any case, thanks for the perspective 
(felt like this had to be said here, too)
Johannes Ernst (@[email protected])
The open web is amazing. So we keep saying in our little subculture, e.g. at #xoxo on the weekend or all over the #fediverse and #indieweb. And generally are met with incomprehension outside of our little subculture. IMHO that's because we are not saying **why** the open web is amazing. I think it all boils down to: "on the open web, I can be much more creative, with minimum expense, than elsewhere, and so easily share my creations with the world."
Latte macchiato 
sorry, but what
Dr. Quadragon ❌
FediThing 
"...childish suffix of the prefix, the -i in Fedi... It's a diminutive that makes it sound like a toy from the queer nerds to tinker and play with, but not like a reliable infrastructure for society to uphold democracy and diverse discourse."
It isn't diminutive at all. It's just the same as the i in universe. Many languages have a similar word for universe which includes the i. (And, by the way, because of that overlap, those other languages can create their own word for Fediverse pretty easily.)
I'm unsure if this thread is satire or not?
AlexTECPlayz@[email protected] Good god, so much gibberish for nothing.
Schlüssellochkind 👁️@yala
Wenn ich in deutsch bleibe sag ich einfach #fediversum oder noch krasser unfremdeld Födiversum (😁) dazu , so wie ich auch sonst nicht "universe" sage nornaler Weise - aber neige doch eher an anderen Stellen zu Übertreibungen für gewöhnlich..
Der Punkt mit dem textfreundlichen unicode hat aber was ⁂ . Nach dem Einwand mit dem unverbundenen Sternen fand erste Suche noch ꙮ 🤔
@lunch @raphael @FediverseSymbol
tort 
Tom Walker@yala So we're supposed to rename something that already has a name because of some unspecified objection?
@tomw I don't feel a generic rejection needs any justification. As a first, I just don't like the term.
My reasons for that can be debatable, but not the sentiment.
@yala I don't like the name "pineapple", shall we rename those too?
Deus
The OwlChemist@tomw Hey Tom, I've tried to be a bit more specific in this thread:
https://degrowth.social/@yala/113016284424703730
Maybe you can follow some of my arguments. I'd also like to know which ones of those you would reject. Could you give me a little response here, if we are actually talking about the same problematic?
Thanks!
jon ⚝ (@[email protected])
hi @[email protected] and @[email protected] Now that the discussion has settled a bit, I'm able to return here for more elaboration. I'm drawing in my criticism from previous conversations and personal experience. Let me start with the latter. At first, the -verse suffix is an anglism and only contributes to the hegemonial project of global harmonisation and hegemony of americanised culture. Native speakers or those that don't speak other languages may not be aware. Then there is the … 1/ @[email protected]
Stephen 🦇@tomw it’s also a stupid name 🤷♂️
@yala @FediverseSymbol what isn't "accessible" about the term Fediverse? We're not just going to change the name because you have some personal gripe with the term that you refuse to elaborate on.
@tkk13909 Hey Krafty! Nice asterism you have in your handle.
Thanks for being open to change the name! I wouldn't even know where to start with, but I'm also not trying to find answers. I'm rather trying to find questions and aspects to look at.
The ones that are accessible to me I've written down in this thread:
https://degrowth.social/@yala/113016284424703730
Do these arguments qualify as reasons for you enough to be considered in the debate?
jon ⚝ (@[email protected])
hi @[email protected] and @[email protected] Now that the discussion has settled a bit, I'm able to return here for more elaboration. I'm drawing in my criticism from previous conversations and personal experience. Let me start with the latter. At first, the -verse suffix is an anglism and only contributes to the hegemonial project of global harmonisation and hegemony of americanised culture. Native speakers or those that don't speak other languages may not be aware. Then there is the … 1/ @[email protected]
Ditol
Danu@ditol @yala @FediverseSymbol people especially in the US who hear it first time think it has something todo with „feds“ like „federal law enforcement“. Not everyone likes or likes to be associated with feds. I also read some people talking about feudalism, although this might be a bit far off.
@B3r6ur @yala @FediverseSymbol
Seriously? This is it? So the world has to go by American realities? Again?
I guess, French should stop refer to their universities as "fac", this sounds bad to US-Americans too.
Seriously? This is it? So the world has to go by American realities? Again?
I guess, French should stop refer to their universities as "fac", this sounds bad to US-Americans too.
@ditol @yala @FediverseSymbol I just explained it, I have 0 issues with it personally. Im against change anything here. The problem is, like other people said, if you are in political discussions in a somewhat global community. Some people may have bad thoughts about the term and/or might not understand the origin. Sure other words have the same problem. Also this is not an US only problem, people have coined the term internationally.
Ur Ya'arNot that I'm advocating any changes, but if you look at the definition, then the Fediverse is actually *not* a federation, in which there is a central entity to which the others are subordinate.
Perhaps the "Confediverse" would have been a better term 😜 Then it could easily morph into "Confettiverse" which is even better! 🎊
@ditol Thanks Ditol for asking! This was probably my first "flamewar"-like wave of responses, where I couldn't follow up anymore with all the puns, jokes and sarcasm being flooded towards me! 😂
In a more serious note, I have tried to elaborate on my _reasons_ for rejecting the term Fediverse as a vessel to convey; yes, which meaning again? Read on:
jon ⚝ (@[email protected])
hi @[email protected] and @[email protected] Now that the discussion has settled a bit, I'm able to return here for more elaboration. I'm drawing in my criticism from previous conversations and personal experience. Let me start with the latter. At first, the -verse suffix is an anglism and only contributes to the hegemonial project of global harmonisation and hegemony of americanised culture. Native speakers or those that don't speak other languages may not be aware. Then there is the … 1/ @[email protected]
Writing Slowly@ditol @yala @FediverseSymbol to me there's nothing wrong with 'fediverse', but I like to think of it as just a useful set of protocols for the **social web**
RamenCatholic 🐢🌈
Stéphane Bortzmeyer@FediverseSymbol Strangely, you apparently don't mention it is an Unicode character, U+2042.
https://r12a.github.io/uniview/?char=2042
#⁂
@bortzmeyer Yes, we will correct that.
Efi (nap pet) 🦊💤@FediverseSymbol but this already has a meaning??
@efi Yes, it is sometimes used to separate paragraphs! But symbols can have multiple meanings. For instance @, 🍑, ✕…
@FediverseSymbol im also annoyed at the uses of @ and $ lol
@efi @FediverseSymbol butt not 🍑? I kinda like it too
Velocipede Rider@FediverseSymbol @efi As a logo for the fediverse it is stupid, given there is no interconnection. This feels like, "I looked through unicode and tried my best to find something I could try and shoehorn into place" Done so that we have a symbol that can be typed. Rather than give up on what we have or go for a cheap but crappy solution, it should be done the proper way. Build the use for a better logo and submit an emoji proposal.
The symbol does not work for this and the proposal feels lazy.
@FediverseSymbol @efi Yes I am aware of the fact that symbols can have multiple means and new meanings evolve over time.
'#' in front of a word was used as a hack on Twitter intitally to making searching more efficient and this evolved into a new meaning, such that this symbol is now often called a hashtag symbol itself.
That was organic and a byproduct of the goal. Yours is a concerted effort to just take over the meaning.
Paul Wilde 
@ruari @FediverseSymbol @efi from a technical perspective it doesn't work for the idea of federation
yes, we all exist on different servers and those servers can be found by having knowledge of other servers, but once that connection is made, that link is direct and the intermediary servers do not matter.
I find the unofficial official fediverse logo shows this well, but the asterism is almost trying to say the fediverse is a bunch of star topology networks interconnected, which is not correct in my opinion
xrvs@FediverseSymbol a bunch of snowflakes? /j
@xarvos @FediverseSymbol yep. I'll be wearing the ⁂ badge with pride 🤣
Whitepaws &🏳️🌈🇳🇱@FediverseSymbol I like both this and the rainbow pentagram.