fossilesqueCrystals
BjörnI’m pretty sure the anti matter “crystals” it produces can alter one’s “frequencies” quite well. If we had enough of the stuff. In the mean time eating bananas is a good substitute.
VarykNASA is pretty into electromagnetic frequencies being actively healthy for humans, specifically promoting neural tissue regeneration, so try not to unilaterally dismiss everything crystal hippies say.
babies, bathwater, all that.
Physiological and Molecular Genetic Effects of Time-Varying Electromagnetic Fields on Human Neuronal Cells - NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)
The present investigation details the development of model systems for growing two- and three-dimensional human neural progenitor cells within a culture medium facilitated by a time-varying electromagnetic field (TVEMF). The cells and culture medium are contained within a two- or three-dimensional culture vessel, and the electromagnetic field is emitted from an electrode or coil. These studies further provide methods to promote neural tissue regeneration by means of culturing the neural cells in either configuration. Grown in two dimensions, neuronal cells extended longitudinally, forming tissue strands extending axially along and within electrodes comprising electrically conductive channels or guides through which a time-varying electrical current was conducted. In the three-dimensional aspect, exposure to TVEMF resulted in the development of three-dimensional aggregates, which emulated organized neural tissues. In both experimental configurations, the proliferation rate of the TVEMF cells was 2.5 to 4.0 times the rate of the non-waveform cells. Each of the experimental embodiments resulted in similar molecular genetic changes regarding the growth potential of the tissues as measured by gene chip analyses, which measured more than 10,000 human genes simultaneously.
Tlaloc_TemporalImportant point, this wasn’t electromagnetic radiation, this was straight electric fields from electrodes.
nope, this study specifically focuses on the neuronal regenerative effects of electromagnetic fields, not simple electric fields:
“The present investigation details the development of model systems for growing two- and three-dimensional human neural progenitor cells within a culture medium facilitated by a time-varying electromagnetic field (TVEMF).”
The study is interesting and informative about fundamental biological effects of magnetism, for anyone who wants to read it.
Yes, it’s specifically oscillating fields, but it’s not the kind of electromagnetic field you’d get from a crystal lamp, a magnet bracelet, or even a WiFi router.
phew, good thing nobody made any of those claims.
what are you talking about?
NASA is very specifically studying and documenting clinically significant physiological effects of low-amplitude pulsed electromagnetic fields.
crystals and magnet bracelets don’t emit electromagnetic fields at all, and NASA isn’t claiming they do.
why are you replying to me with arguments against your own false assumptions?
neither my comments nor NASA’s studies have anything to do with what you’re talking about.
What? That’s the whole meme!
Some bracelet or sticker or crystal you buy for $36 is not gonna do it either
Then you brought up a paper supposedly about “electromagnetic frequencies” (which usually means light) and said
“try not to unilaterally dismiss everything crystal hippies say.”
As if crystals and auras are in any way relevant to the paper about directly applied electricity!
This is exactly what the meme is about; people trying to justify random rocks and accessories with vague factoids and things science supposedly hasn’t discovered.
The frequencies don’t have to be new so much as understood.
This is entirely your claim, and you use it to insinuate that woo really does work and science is slowing coming to understand that! I have no issue with scientific research finding new things, but I take issue when that reseach is used to justify something completely different.
The meme is about how using science won’t discover that “energy” alters your “frequencies”.
This premise has been proved wrong countless times throughout history leading up to today: photosynthesis, radiation poisoning, microwaves,radio waves, gravity, x-rays, ultrasound, infrasound…
Understand that list of discovered energies and frequencies that have changed the world is not exhaustive.
One of the recent examples of energies altering your frequency are NASA’s studies of the clinically significant effects of tvemf, pulsed electromagnetic fields, influencing tissue regeneration, specifically neural tissue and cartilage documented in the studies linked above.
Your argument, and that of the OP, against all ongoing evidence to the contrary, is that you happen to be writing your comments at the absolute apex of historical and technological science, that your lay understanding of such science is sufficient, and all of the scientists who are telling you that you are wrong and new technology and scientific concepts are still being developed, studied, and experimented with constantly are incorrect.
You maintaining that because some inanimate objects do not alter physiological processes, “energy” cannot affect your “frequency” is an absurd illogic.
You are tossing a rock in the air and swearing that planes cannot exist because the rock falls to the ground while planes are flying over your head.
many people mistake the brief moments they are alive for the culmination of history, but this is a selfish and limited understanding of time and history and the next generation will prove you wrong.
Heck, the next Xbox console is going to prove you wrong.
technology marches forward, and so does the human understanding of science.
you should be less proud of your ignorance.
the few moments you are alive are less unique than you want them to be, and you know less than you think you do.
Ignorance? As you defend pink salt and radioactive bracelets as the next frontier of science?
I’m well aware of the radical changes to known science in the past, from the ultraviolet catastrophe to the Michelson-Morley experiment to phebotinum and even to expanding earth models.
Yet for every folk remedy that yeilds an asprin, there are a dozen colloidal silvers, for each inoculation there’s several ear candlings, and for each acupuncture, several Non-Contact Therapeutic Touchs.
A rock from walmart doesn’t have access to any cancer curing or anti-aging energy powers, no matter how hard to believe science to be blind. Are there scientifically undiscovered remedies in use today? Certainly. Is dried turtle brain going to cure your ED? No!
Come back when the next xbox can cure cancer wirelessly and detect ghosts.
you are making things up and pretending I said things I didn’t.
I specifically disclaimed that crystals do not cure cancer and magnetic bracelets don’t work, and then provided a couple incontrovertible proofs that electromagnetic fields(“energy”) affect physiological processes (“frequencies”) to demonstrate the limited scientific understanding and allowance of the meme.
you are caught up on the simple existence of inanimate objects without significant clinical effect on physiological processes and incorrectly extending those false analogies to electromagnetic fields that do have clinical effect on physiological processes.
Your false assumption is that because dried turtle or rocks or Xboxes don’t cure specific diseases(irrelevant and illogical examples that you fabricated and are arguing against all by yourself), energy does not affect frequencies(despite incontrovertible historical and current proof, that you admit to, that energy does affect frequencies).
The illogical and unscientific examples you are making up by yourself to have something to argue against?
Those are false.
Electromagnetic fields affecting physiological processes, specifically tissue regeneration in the referenced studies?
That is true, and proof that science is still discovering new uses for “energy”, even though you and OP were unaware of those advancements.
blaue_FledermausNot to defend these things, I also don't think they work, but the simplest argument is that they work on a metaphysical frequency/energy/whatever, so a physical instrument wouldn't be able to detect it.
XtallllMany of them are also dangerously radioactive.
Wait a minute, how radioactive? Better or worse than collecting old smoke detectors, Radioactive Boy Scout-style?
what do you mean by metaphysical
Metaphysical means that it’s beyond the bounds of normal physics - stuff like ghosts, spirits, religious stuff, etc. Basically, you can cover a lot of hokey with it.
Metaphysical is a fun woo woo word, because one definition of it is basically as you have said, a synonym for supernatural (ie, physically impossible), whereas the other definition of it relates to metaphysics, the philosophical approaches to understand the rules that govern or give rise to the rules/laws of physics.
So you have one contextual usage that means ‘weird unexplained spooky impossible nonsense’, and another that means, ‘logical structures that seek to explain the nature of reality as understood empirically, often by academics.’
Thus its a perfect word for mystical woo people who love to conflate different contextual meanings of words and pretend they are not doing that.
Metaphysical is a fun woo woo word
It’s also a bedrock concept in philosophy. How-we-know-what-we-know, etc.
I mean, it can be two things, but c’mon.
queermunist she/hermaterialism > metaphysics
… You are not understanding me.
In one context, in one kind of usage, ‘metaphysical’ is an adjective referring to a very technical outline of logical reasoning.
In another context, in another kind of usage, it is a vague catch all term for fantastic things that seem to defy logic and reason.
Because these two valid but nearly opposite meanings of the word can be switched out, or conflated, woo woo peddlers love to use this term, as it easily convinces those who do not understand that is what they are doing.
Its the same with ‘energy’ and ‘frequency’. Both of these terms have valid definitions that are highly specific and empirical in a scientific context, but also have commonly used, colloquial meanings which basically indicate a vague notion of pleasantness or unpleasantness.
Woo woo peddlers also love to use these words and conflate their two different meanings.
Most people think that the phrase ‘good/bad vibes’ means that you feel good or bad about a person or situation’s attributes, qualities or what not.
But a person who has been listening to too much woo woo peddlers will believe that there is some kind of actual, literally real, energy or frequency surrounding or exuding from a person or situation they find pleasant or unpleasant, because they are so used to the empirical/scientific concept being totally equated to the whimsical concept that they do not understand there even are two distinct meanings.
The point I am making is not that metaphysical is a woo woo word that means nothing.
The point I am making is that there are many terms with nearly contradictory meanings, where one is associated with objective, ordered, rational, logical, complex concepts that can be studied and meaningfully argued over, and another meaning that is fantastical, defies empiricism or logic, and is highly subjective.
These terms are woo woo terms not because they mean nothing, but because they are often used by woo woo peddlers who jump back and forth between these different meanings to confuse people.
Quantum is another one. So is ‘AI’, at this point.
I really enjoyed your comments.
Thanks!
That makes sense, I get that you’re arguing a word is being misused or appropriated for unhelpful uses.
In one context, in one kind of usage, ‘metaphysical’ is an adjective referring to a very technical outline or system of logical reasoning. In another context, in another kind of usage, it is a vague catch all term for fantastic things that seem to defy logic and reason. Because these two valid but nearly opposite meanings of the word can be switched out, or conflated, woo woo peddlers love to use this term, as it easily convinces those who do not understand that is what they are doing, and sounds grand, wise or profound.
I just disagree that we know what metaphysics is beyond a shared understanding of a basic framework. “It’s what organizes all physical matter” is a terrible definition, but let’s use it for a second.
If I’m Joe Woo Woo and I say “metaphysically, these a-here crystals will affect your monkey chakras beneficially”, you’d argue they’ve misused the word ‘metaphysics’ in that reading. I’m saying that the woo woo brand of crystals is still following “what organizes all physical matter” and we’re not misusing the term.
What we’re really talking about is “there’s no physical evidence that the woo woo crystals beneficializes the monkey chakras”. And we couldn’t we find evidence, because it’s pre-physical evidence.
I agree making a “Quantum Fire Pit” or an “‘AI-based’ Sandwich” is a gross misuse of terminology, but those are different from a pre-physical framework. You have to already be in the physical world to have quanta, to have AI.
Maybe another way to say it is “Sometimes, metaphysics is woo woo.”
Maybe a more decent definition of a metaphysical theory would be:
The rules which give rise to a world which we can describe in more detail with other rules.
Or from another angle:
The rules which are followed by all of the rules of physics.
‘What organizes all physical matter’ is just a definition of physics, without the meta.
…
I think you have not had much exposure to more successful woo woo peddlers, and you’re missing still the key point I am making of conflating meanings of a word.
Its more than just using the word in a vacuous or spurious sense, as with your ‘metaphysically’ example.
It doesn’t really add any meaning whatsoever to just throw ‘metaphysically’ in front of the rest of that sentence, beyond ‘whoah, fancy word.’
You can just throw on fancy sounding words to a sentence or concept, but I am talking about a different and more insidious manipulation tactic.
…
Repetitive conflation of words with multiple meanings breaks down an ignorant audiences ability to understand that they are being lied to by making it unclear that different definitions are in fact different.
Its using a word with meaning A, in a sentence, then in sentence 3 you use meaning B, then in sentence 4 you use meaning A, so on and so on, such that an uniformed or ignorant person who has only heard this word a few times or didn’t pay attention in school is functionally now being educated by woo woo peddler such that they now think the word has a kind of nebulous melding of meaning A and meaning B, and that this is the singular undifferentiated meaning, when in fact this is not the case, there are two distinct, context and domain specific meanings represented by the same word.
You could conceivably do that with the word ‘nuclear’, by switching between the phrase ‘nuclear family’ and ‘nuclear energy’ to the point that, in a long monologue, you might be able confuse some people into thinking that there is a literal subatomic nuclear strong force holding together families, or that quarks and electrons literally have feelings toward other quarks and electrons in their family/atomic unit.
…
Its basically the kind of phenomenon where you can tell that someone does not actually know what a word means, that they never looked up its definition and instead just read or heard it, assumed its meaning based on context, and just carried on using this word, usually wildly incorrectly, because they do not actually know what it means.
It creates an unconscious cognitive dissonance that collapses painfully if one tries to actually suss out what the word actually means, which heavily biases the woo afflicted person toward not attempting to do that.
Woo woo peddlers are successful when they can basically brainwash a person into believing an entire alternate worldview, and basically always this worldview is incoherent, contradictory, that ultimately relies on any cognitive dissonance being reconciled by the woo woo peddler.
The point is to basically brainwash ignorant or desperate people into a whole lifestyle of mystical nonsense where the ultimate authority, source of comfort, who you become dependent on, is the woo woo peddler…
Yes, and well-argued. I see how conflating the meanings of the same words would help woo woo peddlers convince someone who didn’t know better to buy a crystal for $36 dollars when the LHC hasn’t found anything that supports that supposition. A distorting of truth for the sake of a few bucks, indeed.
I think we’re probably at cross purposes here however, because I’m not disagreeing with that at all. My only point was that there was a period in scientific history when “metaphysics” was synonymous with “woo woo” or its equivalent. And that the presumed-proven superiority of scientific inquiry is a modern conceit we enjoy at the risk of missing the larger point.
As an example, let me quote from the Wikipedia entry from “History of Metaphysics” (I chose it because it’s relevant and succinct, this Heidegger lecture at the University of Freiburg is of course a great read as well, and very much more thorough.)
Cognitive archeology such as analysis of cave paintings and other pre-historic art and customs suggests that a form of perennial philosophy or Shamanic metaphysics may stretch back to the birth of behavioral modernity, all around the world. Similar beliefs are found in present-day “stone age” cultures such as Australian aboriginals. Perennial philosophy postulates the existence of a spirit or concept world alongside the day-to-day world, and interactions between these worlds during dreaming and ritual, or on special days or at special places. It has been argued that perennial philosophy formed the basis for Platonism, with Plato articulating, rather than creating, much older widespread beliefs. [Emphasis added]
I like this opening because right off the bat one is faced with the idea that the modern concept of metaphysics is not in fact modern, and that’s perfectly fitting for a concept of All That Is. That it was practiced and taught by Shamans - while admittedly academic supposition - is pretty on-the-nose with the idea that “our” metaphysics - the academic, scientific understanding, is (or can be) “woo woo” - the out-there, seemingly beyond-reason, interpretation of it. At the same time.
So if we can return to my previous character, Joe Woo Woo, here he is now approaching in full Shamanistic regalia - the (I’m making this up but you know how I mean) feathers, the shakers, the paint, the wild primal being in costume(?). That implied image is a direct connection to our understanding of metaphysics surely as much if not more than our discoveries or the existence of the LHC. Far, far older and in some ways more complete than what the LHC has given us.
Is it not?
That’s what I found such an interesting contradiction about this, uh, meme :) Of course that’s heavy on the metaphysics and very light on the science, so I appreciate it’s off-topic a bit. I think science tends to get so surrounded by the Tools of Science that it sometimes can’t see anything that isn’t Official Science. Of course, I’m not a real scientist, so I would think that I guess.
What Heidegger is saying in your excerpt is that in ancient times, it seems that people widely believed in a kind of unseen, parallel world of spirits, which Plato was using as a basis for his ideas, as opposed to wholly inventing his philosophy entirely on his own, without any precedent.
He is pointing out that Plato’s metaphysics can be seen as inspired by, developed off of the foundation of earlier metaphysics, as opposed to Plato just wholly inventing them out of nothing.
When Heidegger gave that lecture, Europeans had very recently actually discovered or deciphered/translated actual empirical, physical evidence for the worldview or metaphysics of many peoples and cultures outside of Europe/The Mediterranean Coast or within that region going back further than Socrates.
They were fairly early into discovering and beginning to translate and understand much of what we, nearly 100 years later, now have widespread access to. Archaeology was still a young field at this time.
The lecture you are quoting was given in 1935 in German, and not even translated into English until 1959!
Heidegger was trying to connect what were at his time, newly discovered dots, toward tracing out the development of various forms of human metaphysics.
Heidegger is not saying that our modern concept of metaphysics is identical to those of shamans thousands of years ago.
He is instead tracing… the history… of widely varying, changing and differing metaphysical theories and ideas, either provably held or postulated to be held by many different groups of people over large time scales.
The entire point is that metaphysical theories change over time.
‘Metaphysics’ is not a single theory, any more than ‘Biology’ or ‘Astronomy’ is a single theory.
Those are all container terms which describe bodies of knowledge and thought within specific parameters, and they’ve all developed over time and place.
Plato has his metaphysical theories, as does Aristotle, and Kant, Leibniz, Hume, and these Perennial Shamans are proposed to as well. They are not all the same ideas and they are often in conflict with one another.
Anyway…
If John Woo Woo shows up in shamanic garb and you find this more convincing that him not being in shamanic garb, I would take the post modernist approach and just tell you that you find this more convincing because you have been conditioned by modern media to associate ancient shamans with purity, innocence, righteousness, spirituality and wisdom.
Also thats basically the most textbook, case-closed instance of cultural appropriation I’ve ever heard: John Woo Woo is dressing up in another culture’s dress and adopting their mannerisms despite not being from or substantially connected to that culture, and he is doing so purely as a marketing technique to sell you useless bullshit within his own internalized capitalist paradigm.
If the commercial on TV has an actor wearing a doctor’s outfit, does this imply the untested supplement you are being sold has any actual medically beneficial effects whatsoever?
Or did you just fall for a marketing gimmick?
In closing: There’s science, and psuedo-science, ie, charlatans adopting some of the garb or mannerisms or vocabulary of science, but which does not actually follow the core concepts of empirical testing, falsifiability, often directly contradicts actual known science, and generally acts as a wolf in sheeps clothing, for personal profit.
To close this with what I was originally going to open this with:
It is not that healing crystals might work because the LHC has yet to discover how they work.
It is that many, many empirical, scientific studies, published and peer reviewed, have repeatedly and unequivocally found that they do not work, that they have no effect beyond placebo.
Heidegger is not saying that our modern concept of metaphysics is identical to those of shamans thousands of years ago.
So far as I know he didn’t - or to a large degree, couldn’t - go farther back than the Greeks. I wonder what he would have made of a shamanistic understanding of “I am”. It would have had to have fit in there somewhere, or else change his opinion.
The entire point is that metaphysical theories change over time.
Theories change, but metaphysics doesn’t. Biology changes, and not just the theories of biology. The field itself changes. Astronomy changes, because both of them are human inventions.
Metaphysics doesn’t change (even though the favorite theories do). Is metaphysics a human invention? Well that’s a metaphysical question, isn’t it. Do Shamans know the answer?
Plato has his metaphysical theories, as does Aristotle, and Kant, Leibniz, Hume, and these Perennial Shamans are proposed to as well. They are not all the same ideas and they are often in conflict with one another.
Yes, and unlike Biology or the hypotheses being developed at the LHC, none of them can be tested or proved. We will never “know” - know for sure - if even one part of any of them is true.
Isn’t it interesting, though, just to consider what the basis for any and all things to be might . . . be?
And in so doing, isn’t it the case that the impressive results of the LHC must be understood to explain only a minute part of the infinite reality that - so far as we know - exists? I would say yes.
“Not real”
Beyond the physical, the realm of ideas, or the spiritual, or something else "beyond".
grrgyleCould also be a placebo which has been clinically proven to have some subjective effect. Not worth getting fleeced over, but worth 2 bucks for a nice rock that makes you feel hopeful.
When I was growing up (granola) everyone in my family had a special little crystal that represented them. I remember when we all picked them out from a big bin. Not to say this kind of thinking can’t have a dark side, though…
Nowadays I just find “special” rocks while I’m out on a walk feeling a certain way, and like mentally imbue them whatever feeling I need (stability, remorse, etc). Then I keep them around and think of that whenever I look them, until I eventually forget why I even got them.
Got a nice Jasper that’s flat on one side helping me through some shit with my family atm
I actually really love this. Even as a staunch user of the scientific method and an atheist, I feel that the use of symbolism and ritual is actually quite important for the human psyche.
Have a good one.
If they worked at all it would be possible to measure the effects indirectly in a double-blind study even if we couldn’t measure the energy directly.
Also, all the scientists “accidentally” making the same mistake as the BBC proves that intelligence doesn’t necessitate maturity 😉
What’s immature about it? Penis fencing is a respectable mating ritual among flat worms.
I didn’t mean it in a disparaging way. I love some immature humor myself, having a mental age of anywhere between 8 and 69 depending on my mood and the situation 😁
I thought this thumbnail was two pugs at first…
I mean maturity is a social construct
tacosanonymousMeh. Placebos affect people so, I let them have it.
If it “makes me feel better”, fine.
If it “makes it so I’m not contagious and won’t give you Covid”, no.
SigntistMy mom died of cancer a few months ago because she was convinced that a combination of sunlight’s natural vibrational frequency and some expensive “medical” herbal teas would cure her. Placebos affect people, but if you let them believe that they’re an alternative to actual science and medicine, then they’ll use them as such.
convinced that a combination of sunlight’s natural vibrational frequency
Reading this made my brain hurt. I’m so sorry for your loss.
Swedneckyou really haven’t thought this through, have you?
Not only does this encourage scammers to scam people, which is itself obviously bad, but it also means that some people will buy these things instead of getting actual treatment.
dohpaz42If people are getting their medical advice from a meme post in a meme community on a link aggregator on the Internet, I doubt there is much that actual science, education, and common sense can do to help.
I feel like with all this placebo stuff you get like 10% increase in perceived well-being vs. a good 10% of the population just going full woo woo about this stuff
Selling people fake remedies is always going to be to the detriment of real remedies unless they are targeted exclusively at conditions for which there are no real remedies.
Furthermore, the real issue isn’t about “letting people have their crystals”, it’s about letting people sell fake remedies, something that should be banned unconditionally. Profiting off of pretending to help people while not helping them is socially malignant.
OP is phrased in terms of attacking consumers because the poster is an idiot, as made evident by their absurd and pandering rhetorical tact.
EndMilkInCrisps [he/him]Is the LHC experimenting on crystals?
It’s a stupid post, but the idea is clearly that these energies, if they matter at all to human health, clearly don’t exist exclusively within crystals.
This concept is just as dangerous as the right wing claiming LHC will open black holes. There’s an implication here that just as soon as LHC was turned on it suddenly gathered information about every unknown Force, particle, and energy in the universe.
The Large hadron collider took 4 years to confirm the higgs boson; as of today it is only on its third data collection run. LHC is hardly a silver bullet.
Fleur__Lol those losers at cern wasted hundreds of millions of dollars to find out that there aren’t frequencies that alter your energy while I only spent 36 dollars.
Get real
Bakkoda“I did my research”
I’m sure the next size up will finally discover the radiant frequencies that my crystals are resonating to.
konaltPondering my blue apatite rn
The irony of it being a choking hazard, lmao
Protection against other crystals lol
jjagaimoAttracts badgers, you say?
Top tier shitpost
Old Gum is my jam!
I see nothing wrong with this nutritional chart
No, but seriously, you can use galena to make a radio that’s powered by the radio waves themselves!
