Speaking of language, sometimes I remember how incredibly weird it is that a software feature designed to help you achieve something is canonically called a "wizard".

Oh I need help configuring this, lemme light the beacon and call for the aid of Digital Gandalf

Also implies that the default state of software is, I dunno, an orc or a barbarian or something. Something that you need a wizard to help you with, certainly.

Now thinking about creating a movement to promote "hobbit software". Pretty chill, keeps to itself, tends to its databases, hangs out with other hobbit software at the pub, broadly unbothered by the scheming of the wizards and the orcs, oblivious to the rise and fall of software empires around them.

Oh, the Electron empire is going to war with the Reacts? Sounds ghastly, sorry to hear that. Me and the lads are off to the pub to run some cronjobs, wanna come along?

@danderson Given my experience in the wilds of the internet, I believe the default is "troll".
@danderson do we get two breakfasts?
@dblohm7 I have yet to see evidence that any programs can happen without second breakfast. You just can't risk it!

To follow the metaphor @danderson, we'd need the equivalent of the Rangers of the North, who actively patrolled the boundaries of the Shire and protected its inhabitants from ever needing to know anything about the world outside.

And those Rangers would need to be incorruptible, and the institution survive indefinitely with the same selfless, guardian-of-peace mission. All this despite getting mostly suspicion and ignorance of their role, from the Shire inhabitants.

Sounds like an unachievable fantasy to me.

@danderson Vim, Lynx, Perl 4, Forth, DOS 5, 16 bits and 640K bytes of RAM are all anyone needs.
@danderson this is funny to me coz I've worked on a software project for the past few years where I am definitely the hobbit in the party, and I've also gotten to (mostly) blithely ignore stuff like React. But we need our wizards working in the outer wilds.
@danderson Yeah. I’ll stick with my boring tech of C++ and Qt over here.
@danderson I believe we use the term "home-cooked software."
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22332629
An app can be a home-cooked meal | Hacker News

pwmt.org

@RL_Dane
there's also the suckless project. My understanding is that their philosophy is quite similar to the hobbit software idea of @danderson (though I must say, I like hobbit software more than suckless).

They have a page that lists software outside of their project that follows a similar philosophy, so basically a categorized list of hobbit software:

https://suckless.org/rocks/

(of course zathura is in it)

software that sucks less | suckless.org software that sucks less

@oblomov @danderson

I do like suckless. I use dmenu a decent bit, and I love nsxiv, which isn't actually a suckless.org project, but tries to be suckless in utility.

Also, I consider the #OpenBSD project to be similar in goal.

@oblomov @RL_Dane @danderson My impression of suckless software is that it optimizes for lines of code at the cost of complexity, in particular modifying software by applying patches shifts the complexity of making sure all the features interact well onto the users.

Also +1 for zathura, that's a great piece of software

@aren @oblomov @danderson

Yeah, not all of their software is useful for everyone. I used st (with patches) for a little while. I do use dmenu the most out of their tools. I have used Surf a decent bit, as it's very memory-conservative for a modern browser, but I had some issues with the clipboard functionality.

Never tried dwm, though. I'm too hooked on the i3wm/sway tabbed windows, and can't go back to *just* tiling.

@danderson

That's the classic Unix command line you are describing. Who needs SQL when you have tab separated value files and:

grep foo bar.tsv | cut -f 2,3,5 | sort | head

@danderson many apologies for my lack of self control - https://hobbit.software/
Seeing as I owe you a few beverages of your choice already, ....
Hobbit Software

https://hobbit.software

website
@danderson and takes twice as many meals daily as big jobs, lives only to digest them
@danderson my code those days is bare-metal assembly, for ancient obsolete hardware, that doesn't even use external headers for hardware definitions. I guess it's the Tom Bombadil of code, what do you think?
@danderson also doesn't bother DRY-ing prematurely.

@hugo @danderson wrong duplication is way easier to fix than wrong abstraction.

We don't need to knead bread dough either; it still tastes like bread.

@danderson where do I sign up!?
@danderson new better computing just dropped
@danderson I would like to join your party
@danderson then Saruman moves in and rewrites all those cronjobs in Kubernetes..
@danderson i also want hobbit hardware
@danderson given that nc - NetCat - was originally written by the person known almost exclusively as Hobbit, yeah, I’m good with that description

@danderson

At the end of the book is The Scouring of the Shire, where the Shire is taken over and it's inhabitants enslaved, only to be saved be the 4 returning Hobbits.

At the end of the day the Electron React war will leave no place untainted!

@danderson you gotta watch out, every once in a while it'll steal the ring buffer and try to melt it
@danderson this is named suckess. simple, effective, no monstrous combines, completing one task, but well. and everything is a pipe, old good UNIX way. on software level it's a good decomposition, separate libraries for different tasks. no hundreds of dependencies, no fat giant frameworks, no coprorate software that makes everyone dependent on it, no gigabytes of BS installation needed for work of a small utility. every utility is maximally independent, installs by copying the binary and perhaps a few libraries to a working directory and runs from console.
@iron_bug @danderson idk to me suckless sounds like it's trying to minmax something, sounds too try-hard for a hobbit.
@wolf480pl @danderson writing good software isn't easy. you either make an effort and get optimal fine tuned sofware or you don't work well enough and increase the piles of shitware that is more than enough already.
good software is a state of an art level.
@iron_bug @danderson yes, it just sounds like good software (by your standards) is not what OP had in mind
@danderson ... smokes an enormous amount of marijuana but calls it by a cute euphemism so no one suspects.
@danderson It's Unix. You describered Unix tools.
@danderson well i'd be careful. I've been using exlusively hobbit software and it's usually perfectly fine and peaceful but the other day a bunch of them started behaving very weirdly. One of them took my access token and tried to send it back to google with a DELETE request, awaking in the process an old virus that had been stuck on a SLEEP for ages in the depths of my process manager. And then while I was busy running a wizard to clean that up, other hobbit softwares started to make my CPU overheat which led to a breach in my watercooling system. Now my computer tower has been flooded and my token has been burnt so I lost access to my google account.
@danderson Can i interest you in #GoblinMode #Programming ? (see my pinned tweet)
@danderson sounds like it would be friends with @cabel’s term #slowbiz
@danderson I just realized that the dinky little Godot launcher I created is 1000% hobbit software. Gonna tag it with #hobbitsoftware to get this going :D