abolitionniste 🇪🇺I'm not sure whether I understand the French enough, but this text seems relevant (to our activities?):
If you go through the French text, I would be happy for your impressions.
JPXV🇫🇷🇦🇺🌻@abolitionniste @pgcd @Veza85UE @xChaos @riff @SpiceOdissey The text defines what extreme left is, in order to establish that the Nouveau Front Populaire is not extreme left, but just (normal) left.
Chao-c'@bobojp @abolitionniste @pgcd @Veza85UE @riff @SpiceOdissey we have the same problem with @Pirati - we are constantly labeled "extreme left", when we are actually just centre left (at best).
For me, discussing what are left, radical left and extreme left positions and policies definitely makes sense.
For example, I support the idea of Basic income, instead of excessive labor regulations. For me, as a former entrepreneur (perhaps not very successful, but with some experience), the regulations strip important information from the pricing, so I would somehow like to see free market and social welfare state to run side by side, without one destroying the very basics of other. For market, it is the process of establishing the prices by supply and demand (which makes market essentially a distributed computing system) and for state it is everything related to rules, education, culture and generally values not based on scarcity (and I oppose artificial scarcity, as well as ignoring negative externalities).
I am maybe not typical Pirate party member, but this still does not place average Pirate "extreme left". For me, the radical and extreme left ideas, besides nationalization of industries, are eg. 100% marginal income tax rate (effectively limiting maximum income). Also I kind of doubt the normal-left notion of labor unions, which just increase labor price by monopolizing it - instead, basic-income based societies looks like something, which could produce stable, ecosystem and provide some definition of freedom which could last - not really egalitarian, but also not totally predatory.
You can have several left approaches to egalitarianism: sometimes it is emphasis on the immorality of being "rich", which after all has mainly social and political consequences (luxury life in isolation is just marginal strategy of the rich). "Inequality is to be avoided, prevented and the existing perhaps punished" (extreme left). "We should try to maximize production" (socialists).
6.7. 09:26 xChaos https://f.cz/@xChaos/112738361793089629 :
> For me, discussing what are left, radical left and extreme left positions and policies definitely makes sense.
[email protected] , For me, the words 'left', 'radical' and 'extreme' are not very useful. I am not happy with conceptual splitting of 'non-extreme left' and 'extreme left'. I may try 'left is good' but 'only some left is good' doesn't appeal to me.
xChaos (@[email protected])
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] we have the same problem with @[email protected] - we are constantly labeled "extreme left", when we are actually just centre left (at best). For me, discussing what are left, radical left and extreme left positions and policies definitely makes sense. For example, I support the idea of Basic income, instead of excessive labor regulations. For me, as a former entrepreneur (perhaps not very successful, but with some experience), the regulations strip important information from the pricing, so I would somehow like to see free market and social welfare state to run side by side, without one destroying the very basics of other. For market, it is the process of establishing the prices by supply and demand (which makes market essentially a distributed computing system) and for state it is everything related to rules, education, culture and generally values not based on scarcity (and I oppose artificial scarcity, as well as ignoring negative externalities). I am maybe not typical Pirate party member, but this still does not place average Pirate "extreme left". For me, the radical and extreme left ideas, besides nationalization of industries, are eg. 100% marginal income tax rate (effectively limiting maximum income). Also I kind of doubt the normal-left notion of labor unions, which just increase labor price by monopolizing it - instead, basic-income based societies looks like something, which could produce stable, ecosystem and provide some definition of freedom which could last - not really egalitarian, but also not totally predatory. You can have several left approaches to egalitarianism: sometimes it is emphasis on the immorality of being "rich", which after all has mainly social and political consequences (luxury life in isolation is just marginal strategy of the rich). "Inequality is to be avoided, prevented and the existing perhaps punished" (extreme left). "We should try to maximize production" (socialists).
@bobojp , Thank you for your kind help. I understand you are a French and European Union citizen. Correct? I am interested in desribing a desired political direction of the Union. For me, the words "left", "extreme", "normal" are not helpful. But, if I use them, a starting of my or our description may be a combination of 'Ukraine must win' and 'left is good'. Would you be interested on some cooperation?
@abolitionniste @xChaos Yes, I’m French and also got Australian Citizenship. I’ve always been pro EU and I’m pro Ukraine since 22 Feb 2022.
Not sure what is involved with such collaboration, though I may be able to help with translations especially.
I agree with left is good. I do vote socialist when my assessment of the leader is positive. But I do draw a line with extreme left, which as per the definition in the submitted text is revolutionary in essence and to me aims at levelling things from and for the bottom.
Not sure what is involved with such collaboration, though I may be able to help with translations especially.
I agree with left is good. I do vote socialist when my assessment of the leader is positive. But I do draw a line with extreme left, which as per the definition in the submitted text is revolutionary in essence and to me aims at levelling things from and for the bottom.
@bobojp , Great! 🙂 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
The more EU languages we cover the better.
I propose some rules of our cooperation:
1) Each of us does a little; as little as they wish.
2) One can drop out any time withou any hard feelings.
3) Our cooperation is a little more than tooting, boosting and faving.
Perhaps, you may look here, whether you may join me in that intermediate statement:
https://trojkatretiho.cz/viewtopic.php?p=1084#p1084
These are MEPs of S&D, RE and G/EFA political groups.
Ask. I explain 🙂
@abolitionniste @xChaos OK. I recognised deputies from Renaissance in there (Mr. Macron’s party). I’m guessing the others are of similar background.
In which case, I can gladly support this list.
In which case, I can gladly support this list.
@bobojp mostly I am positive or even enthusiastic, when I learn backgrounds and stories of the MEPs on the list.
in one case, I found german soc-dem MEP, who insists on criminalising clients of sex services. While it may be more fair, than criminalising the sex workers themselves, I am more harm-reduction oriented and would decriminalise lot of stuff (which does not necessarily mean promoting it). But it is probably not the main issue characterising the shared political vision, I guess.
@xChaos , I am glad you study the individual cases 🙂 I'll be happy to discuss her case with you, based on her statements and perhaps involving her or someone of her staff too.
I am looking for a broad perspective / coalition(?)... When I say I am on the side of the Ukrainian army I am not saying that I approve of all individiual soldiers...
@bobojp @abolitionniste I see pople from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_Publique which seems to be more centre-left alternative to more radical https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_France_Insoumise
I admit, that European political life is quite complex, with local parties in many countries not necessarily having straightforward counterparts in other parties (but they use EP fractions to find each other and affiliate)
We, Pirates, were just accused on one Czech discussion forum (nyx.cz), that our MEPs voting is alligned with Die Linke. This is quite complex, because on the other hand, ECR voting seems to be aligned with ID member parties, and so on...
@xChaos @abolitionniste I did vote for Raphaël Glucksmann (Place Public) for the European election. He’s very strongly pro EU and pro Ukraine, and I like his ideas in general.
But then they associated for the legislative elections with LFI (Melenchon) which is a shame.
But then they associated for the legislative elections with LFI (Melenchon) which is a shame.
@xChaos @abolitionniste Place Public is basically what is left of French Socialist Party these days.
@abolitionniste @xChaos Just voted… In my circonscription, RN was beaten in the first round by both Renaissance and NFP, so it was easier for me…
NFP had candidate from LFI, so I supported Renaissance.
NFP had candidate from LFI, so I supported Renaissance.
@bobojp , I very happy about this agreement 🤝 🎉 🍷
The European Parliament page with links to the political groups pages: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/about-parliament/en/organisation-and-rules/organisation/political-groups
S&D : https://www.socialistsanddemocrats.eu/
RE: https://www.reneweuropegroup.eu/
G/EFA: https://www.greens-efa.eu/en/
The names in our(!) list are based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_European_Parliament_%282024%E2%80%932029%29 as of 2.7.
I noticed there are already some additions to some of our(!) groups, we will update the list when we find better data...
@abolitionniste @pgcd @Veza85UE @riff @SpiceOdissey
I translated the article and it seems to be exactly what I am talking about.
Veza85UE@abolitionniste @pgcd @xChaos @riff @SpiceOdissey
Well, now. My embargo is over so I can finally confess: I don't care about left/right. I'm a normie, I don't have an education or a natural disposition towards Grand Political Ideas. A friend once called our local apparatchiks "ideologycels", right before adding: "This is why you keep getting your arses kicked by the conservatives" and I can't unhear that. I can't take their programme seriously because they were a cobbled together "attelage"
Well, now. My embargo is over so I can finally confess: I don't care about left/right. I'm a normie, I don't have an education or a natural disposition towards Grand Political Ideas. A friend once called our local apparatchiks "ideologycels", right before adding: "This is why you keep getting your arses kicked by the conservatives" and I can't unhear that. I can't take their programme seriously because they were a cobbled together "attelage"
@abolitionniste @pgcd @xChaos @riff @SpiceOdissey
(DeepL says that's "combination", "vychytávka" in Czech) of parties who agree on almost nothing and which was never designed for governing or sticking to electoral promises. Initially, they could easily drop whatever demagoguery they wanted on that list just to ensure some safe seats for spineless nobodies like Olivier Faure. Now that there are irl consequences (especially for the ones with 2027 ambitions), well... 😏
(DeepL says that's "combination", "vychytávka" in Czech) of parties who agree on almost nothing and which was never designed for governing or sticking to electoral promises. Initially, they could easily drop whatever demagoguery they wanted on that list just to ensure some safe seats for spineless nobodies like Olivier Faure. Now that there are irl consequences (especially for the ones with 2027 ambitions), well... 😏
@abolitionniste @pgcd @xChaos @riff @SpiceOdissey
things have changed, suddenly organising scarcity (via blocking prices) and blowing up inflation is going to be difficult to implement.
This is where the world of Grand Political Ideas meets the messy flesh of humans involved in politics (this includes us, voters, we incentivise their behaviour).
So good thing job no. 1 is done, the Republic is safe for now, but it's not the programme that's going to matter now, imo.
things have changed, suddenly organising scarcity (via blocking prices) and blowing up inflation is going to be difficult to implement.
This is where the world of Grand Political Ideas meets the messy flesh of humans involved in politics (this includes us, voters, we incentivise their behaviour).
So good thing job no. 1 is done, the Republic is safe for now, but it's not the programme that's going to matter now, imo.
@Veza85UE , I think, it's worth a celebration of the good thing, of the job no. 1 - 🎉 🍷 🎆 . And yes, save the Republic is not a programme for now. We will see what the 'représentants' will do. I would like a common programme of coalition of the whole left and the whole Macronic center - 😇 .
https://www.resultats-elections.interieur.gouv.fr/legislatives2024/ensemble_geographique/index.html
@abolitionniste That would be the most shocking outcome to me given the maturity level, political skill and culture of compromise of what's left of LR and PS, but sure, it's one of the options.
In the meantime a budget with at least SOME level of compliance with the EU's Germany-imposed new-SGP rules will need to be passed. The impossibility of passing it under the old AN triggered the elections And here comes the beauty of democracy: "Well, you did vote to pay higher taxes, your choice." 😉
In the meantime a budget with at least SOME level of compliance with the EU's Germany-imposed new-SGP rules will need to be passed. The impossibility of passing it under the old AN triggered the elections And here comes the beauty of democracy: "Well, you did vote to pay higher taxes, your choice." 😉
@Veza85UE, these 350? 🤣
Nouveau Front populaire (182)
La France insoumise (74)
Parti socialiste (59)
Les Écologistes (28)
Parti communiste français (9)
Génération.s (5)
Divers gauche (5)
Régionalistes (2)
Ensemble pour la République (168)
Renaissance (102)
MoDem (33)
Horizons (25)
Divers centre (3)
UDI (2)
Agir (1)
Divers droite (1)
Parti radical (1)
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lections_l%C3%A9gislatives_fran%C3%A7aises_de_2024
