Ernie SmithJun 28, 2024
The irony is not lost on me that the Internet Archive went out of its way to acquire the physical versions of millions of books and loan them out carefully and in a limited way, and is facing a near-extinction-level event over it, while for-profit and VC-backed companies are just stealing people’s content and making up excuses to validate the bad behavior.
Show threadWiredfire

@ernie while I totally agree from a moral pint of view, IA knew they were flaunting rules and got sloppy / arrogant about it. While the copyright system BADLY needs reform IA brought this world of pain onto themselves knowing that system very well and should have known better.

For me it raises a pressing matter of who archives the archive..? We need redundancy of such important services to protect them against catastrophe be that technological or bureaucratic.

Jun 28, 2024 at 8:56pmWeb
Show threadWiredfireJun 28, 2024
@ernie what IA were doing may have been morally right but we all know morality doesn’t come into copyright law 😒
Show threadErnie SmithJun 28, 2024
@wiredfire I think IA pushed the edges of the program a little too hard during the pandemic but the idea of checking out digital forms of physical books is how things should work. It’s infuriating that it does not
Show threadWiredfireJun 28, 2024
@ernie absolutely, it’s maddening. In a similar way I have a stack of physical books but I just don’t read them, I always pick up the Kobo instead. There is no legal route for me to simply format-shift them to digital. Of course there are plenty of routes I could go to furnish myself with digital copies, but still.
Show threadWiredfireJun 28, 2024
@ernie There was a service that tried to do this for a while, you had to write a message in the book and send photo as evidence and it used that to determine one book = one ebook. Naturally publishers hated this idea and the whole thing fell apart fairly quickly 😠
Show threadJessamynJun 28, 2024
@wiredfire @ernie I have never heard of that "write a message in the book to prove ownership" thing and as a librarian who has also worked at Open Library, I am very curious, Do you remember what it was called?
Show threadWiredfireJun 28, 2024

@jessamyn @ernie it was called “Shelfie”. All gone and burried now but this is an article that touches on how it worked from the end user point of view:

https://time.com/4146187/shelfie-app-free-ebooks/

How to Turn Your Paper Books Into (Free) E-books and Audio Books

A new app doubles as a social media platform for the book-obsessed

Time
Show threadJessamynJun 28, 2024
@wiredfire @ernie Thank you!
Show threadWiredfireJun 28, 2024
@jessamyn @ernie you’re welcome! ☺️
Show threadDana McFarland 🍁 🔥🐎Jun 30, 2024
@wiredfire @jessamyn @ernie I remember some mystification and discussion about names on the tp verso when examples of these started surfacing as discards. There were other apps that worked the same way.
https://www.adweek.com/galleycat/take-a-shelfie-to-get-a-free-ebook-version-of-any-print-book-you-own
Take a ‘Shelfie’ to Get a Free eBook Version of Any Print Book You Own

Want an eBook version of a book that you own in print? Check out bitlit, a new app that will help connect you with an eBook if you can prove that you own the print edition. With the app, you take a “shelfie” of your book shelf. The app will use that photo to see if any of the books ...

Show threadDana McFarland 🍁 🔥🐎Jun 30, 2024
@wiredfire @jessamyn @ernie iirc there was also at least one case of a library reporting that they had this strange form of vandalism occur, where a name would be found on the tp verso.
That would seem not very well thought through.
Show threadRiley S. FaelanAug 6, 2024

@wiredfire The moral of the story is, it's immoral to try and jump through stupid hoops in order to make the copyright hoarders happy. The copyright hoarders will never be made happy, and they will use not being happy as a pretext for hurting the public in immoral ways.

The moral thing to do is for a library to make copies to everybody who wants one.

@ernie

Show threadWiredfireAug 6, 2024

@riley @ernie no argument there, I don't believe I've ever philosophically disagreed with what IA did. I think it was shortsighted continue the scheme after covid lockdowns. For me the moral is pissing off copyright holders when you operate legitimately (unlike places like Libgen) is not the way to approach copyright change.

IA had the moral high ground but that didn't help in court. We can all agree on the ethics but the law disagres with us, and really needs change bit this wasn't the way.

Show threadRiley S. FaelanAug 6, 2024

@wiredfire Well, if you understand why the system is abusive, why call it "legitimate"? Why justify it?

@ernie

Show threadWiredfireAug 6, 2024
@riley @ernie I mean legitimate in the legal sense not moral which I've already been fairly clear on the distinction of
Show threadmike805Aug 6, 2024

@wiredfire @ernie Libgen is doing alright.

Piracy is the only tool the public has to restrain copyright holders' behavior.

Show threadRiley S. FaelanJun 28, 2024

@wiredfire *hiss*! *boo*!

You're pretending that the "rules" are some sort of objective, knowable, and respectable thing? *hiss*!

​

@ernie

Show threadNiniAug 6, 2024
@wiredfire @ernie How do you go about moving IA to a more federated or at least less centralised system? Figure the data for all of the archives must be into the high end of the petabyte range at this point.