Mastodawn

Steve Troughton-Smith Jun 21, 2024

"iPhone Mirroring, SharePlay Screen Sharing enhancements, and Apple Intelligence”

Apple's screen sharing being the only one with remote control is very clearly self-preferencing. iPhone Mirroring, though? Beats me. None of these actually hit upon DMA rules directly, so maybe Apple's just pulling out the dirty tricks to try to turn users against legislators. If they applied this imaginary criteria to all their existing software, they'd have to un-ship virtually everything
https://mastodon.social/@macrumors/112655635256850912

Leon Cowle Jun 21, 2024

@stroughtonsmith This is a non-trolling reply (really). I support people in the EU's right to not be forced to pay Apple via either AppStore commissions or via the CTF. I really do. Get apps from alt stores with no fees to Apple. But then I also support Apple not shipping (certain?) features to the EU. You buy your iPhone and get what's on it at that time. Nothing more. No OS updates, new features, new APIs. Cut off iMessage. Cut off iCloud/CloudKit. Hide my Email. Private Relay. Etc. 1/2

dmitriid Jun 21, 2024

@leoncowle @stroughtonsmith

And the reason you support Apple not shipping those features tonthe EU is what exactly?

Leon Cowle Jun 21, 2024

@dmitriid @stroughtonsmith No sark, did you read both parts of my reply? I FIRMLY support EU residents (and in fact, anyone worldwide -- wish Apple would give this option everywhere!) to get Apps from Alt Stores, devs to pay no CTF, sideloading, etc. I.e. use your device free from any fees to Apple. But then you also don't get ANYTHING from Apple that costs them money to develop/support/maintain/distribute, etc. (See examples in my 2 posts). No-one has a right to Apple services for free forever.

Leon Cowle Jun 21, 2024

@dmitriid @stroughtonsmith So for these specific ones announced today, I don't really have a strong take on. I believe they will come to the EU once the kinks have been worked out. But I will support Apple if they were to choose to start withholding MORE from anyone who chooses to install an alternate app store, but still provide everything "included" for those who don’t. People can't have it both ways: pay Apple nothing after initial device purchase but expect ongoing access to costly services.

dmitriid Jun 21, 2024

@leoncowle @stroughtonsmith

So, once everyone in EU upgrades to iPhone 15/16, they should expect to have access to those services, right? Becasue those would be the services available for those phones, and paid for by the purchase of the phone. Right?

dmitriid Jun 21, 2024

@leoncowle @stroughtonsmith

And if these services are costly, then the price of the iPhone will be reduced accordingly in the EU by the cost if these services that are no longer provided. Right? Right?

Leon Cowle Jun 21, 2024

@dmitriid @stroughtonsmith Nope. You pay for the device. Your app store commissions (and Apple One subs, etc) fund other services. You have NO RIGHT to ETERNAL ACCESS TO services that costs Apple money just because you bought a device. When I bought my car, I got 1 year of “connected driving" (remote start etc) included. After that one year, I could choose to keep paying for that, or lose the feature. I have NO RIGHT to use Ford's ongoing infrastructure costs just because I bought their car.

dmitriid Jun 21, 2024

@leoncowle @stroughtonsmith

iPhone revenue is 3x Apple's R&D expenses.

By buying my phone I've funded most of what Apple builds and distributes "for free".

If they claim I didn't, they must prove it. So far they've only claimed they didn't even care if AppStore was profitable.

@leoncowle @stroughtonsmith

Since I'm likely to change my iPhone quite often, I fund *a lot* of what Apple does. So yes, I'm definitely entitled to Apple's products.

If Apple thinks it's costly, they can show the proof and offer me to pay for these services.

dmitriid Jun 21, 2024

@leoncowle @stroughtonsmith

And yeah, you bought a car with a shitty contract designed to milk you dor money forever.

This proves... literally nothing.

Leon Cowle Jun 21, 2024

@dmitriid @stroughtonsmith But that's just the point. A shitty contract would be to disable the brake pedal if I don't pay. A good contract is we give you this EXTRA service, that's not needed for basic operation of the car you bought, and you can choose to keep paying us for that because for us to run that service costs money. And then it's up to me as the consumer to choose whether to pay or forego the service. I have NO right to that service for free forever.

dmitriid Jun 21, 2024

@leoncowle @stroughtonsmith

Apple doesn't have a "you have this for a year, and then you can pay to continue". It's a package deal for iPhones, and is included in the price

Leon Cowle Jun 21, 2024

@dmitriid @stroughtonsmith You're right there. I believe they should change that to compensate for the new legal realities springing up globally.

But to come back to the initial point. None of the 3 services they announced they are withholding from the EU today were “included in the price” when you bought your iPhone, so you don't have rights to them, right? By your own logic.

dmitriid Jun 21, 2024

@leoncowle @stroughtonsmith

Then we're back to "if i buy iPhone 15/16, I should have rights to them" :) But even that doesn't seem to be the case.

And up to this point somehow all new developments and services were included in the package, but not from now on. And "the new legal realities" are largely self-inflicted by Apple IMO

dmitriid Jun 21, 2024

@leoncowle @stroughtonsmith

Side point: https://mastodon.social/@stroughtonsmith/112655895720105463

dmitriid Jun 21, 2024

@leoncowle @stroughtonsmith

I do agree however that they could come out and say: we charge for these services because X and Y. And I guess many people would gladly pay.

Leon Cowle Jun 21, 2024

@dmitriid @stroughtonsmith Side point well made.

dmitriid Jun 21, 2024

@leoncowle @stroughtonsmith

I'm actually waiting for this news to appear on mjtsai because there will be a bunch of points we didn't think of in the heat of the moment.

I also realise we're actually closer in our thoughts despite the ongoing apparent disagreement :) I think we're just slightly off to different sides along the same line

Leon Cowle Jun 21, 2024

@dmitriid @stroughtonsmith 100% agree. I think we've gravitated ever-so-slightly towards each other's arguments.

Maybe Apple CAN withhold services (or only include them for a specific period for “free”), but that must CLEARLY be part of the device purchase contract. Like they’ve done in the past for 3 months of free AppleTV+ if you buy a device. As it stands, they are NOT clear on this, so it's reasonable to expect ongoing access to services and new features.

High five, my passionate friend. 🙏

dmitriid Jun 21, 2024

@leoncowle @stroughtonsmith