It seems Vox is in the business of antisemitic tropes now.
A challenge to my readers, let's find and point out all the antisemitic statements and innuendos in this piece about Jerry Seinfield. Whether you like Seinfeld, or agree with Seinfeld is another story, and not what we're discussing.
https://www.vox.com/culture/354953/jerry-seinfeld-controversy-backlash
BTW, I wasn't looking for antisemitism. Google News suggested this article about Seinfeld to me, and reading it was a shock.
@serge "criticism Seinfeld has frequently reframed as antisemitic".
It's amazing how no attempt is made to even consider that a Jew stating they face antisemitism is telling the truth. It is self-evident that they are just reacting to "criticism" that they have "reframed" as antisemitism. Hard to imagine this rhetoric from Vox if a member of a different minority group had claimed that they faced discrimination or bigotry.
I believe it can be both/multiple things.
It is extremely dishonest and meant to discredit Seinfeld or anyone who complains about anitisemitism and also "no enemies to the left." at the same time.
I understand your perspective. What leads you such a different conclusion than me in regards to it being not antisemitism?
For me the targeting of a Jew, the dismissal and ridicule of his experience, etc. all point to antisemitism.
You don't see it that way?
@serge @benkap They may have antisemitic attitudes but what I see is conformity to a milieu that tolerates antisemitism.
More generally, my issue is with the current concept of "allyship" - deference to oppressed groups (in practice usually their loudest & most extreme members) - which is a big part of the problem. Jews don't get to decide what's antisemitic by ourselves, others can disagree. The better approach is solidarity - we support each other in support of common interests & beliefs. 1/2
> They may have antisemitic attitudes but what I see is conformity to a milieu that tolerates antisemitism.
They're using antisemitic tropes.
> Jews don't get to decide what's antisemitic by ourselves, others can disagree.
This disempowerment of Jews to say we don't get to decide what is and isn't hate to us is something I find gross and disgusting.
> In that view, the fight against antisemitism is one part of a broader struggle for democracy and human rights.
I'm not interested in engaging with someone who will de-center antisemitism in a conversation about antisemitism.
@serge @benkap
> This disempowerment of Jews to say we don't get to decide what is and isn't hate to us is something I find gross and disgusting.
We can certainly make our own conclusions about what is antisemitic. But other people don't have to agree with our conclusions unless we can prove them. Just as we don't have to accept Louis Farrakhan's views about what is racist.
***
It's much easier to combat social acceptance of hate than flat-out hate. So let's try to figure out which is which.
@benkap @serge honestly, it is not that uncommon for people who consider themselves to be on the left to team up and declare that some racist thing they said or did was not racist, that painting it as such is an overreaction, and typically an appeal to the fact that they are leftists and thus must be decent people. (This is because doing racist things is often conflated with being a racist.)
So yeah… It is definitely the case that Jews are rarely believed when we call out antisemitism, but it is not unique, it is an experience shared with a lot of BIPOC.
Serge from Babka
Ben K 🇮🇱
Benjamin Ross
רִבְקָה | Rebekkah