soloojos (Lemmy)/e/OS Is Better Than Android. You Should Try It
iiGxC/e/OS is android lol. And grapheneos is way better than e/os (even though they’re all android)
apfelwoiSchoppenWe need hardware requirements so that not just pixel phones can get grapheneOS. Giving into Google hardware to escape Google software is a step I don’t want to take. I’ll take calyxOS or disvestOS until then.
We need hardware requirements so that not just pixel phones can get grapheneOS.
GOS has strict hardware requirements to increase security that currently only Pixels meet. They won’t, and shouldn’t, compromise their standards which would give you a weaker OS. Want GOS on other vendors? Convince those vendors to up their hardware game.
Yes, hardware requirements for Android need to be higher. That’s the only way you get other manufacturers.
EngineerGamingMy main issue with Pixels is their price, even the Pixel A. They are completely unaffordable new, and only hit below $300 when they barely have any support yet (or are used). I don’t mind using an EOL phome because with short support like on phones it is unavoidable, but that would be after alreafdy overpaying.
Honestly the short 5 year from original release till EOL thing really fucking annoys me, but it’s literally every phone on the market. I’ve looked, it’s impossible to find a phone that doesn’t force you to replace it every few years unless you go to a plain dumb phone that only supports voice calls and maybe basic SMS with no apps. That’s just a nonstarter in this day and age.
Even alternative Android firmware like GrapheneOS and /e/OS are dependent on the stock firmware releases by the phone manufacturer so when the manufacturer goes EOL and stops releasing updates your alternative installs also are effectively EOL.
The only solution to this problem I’ve seen that seems like it has a chance is Linux Phone OS, but it still has several problems that make it unusable for most people (biggest one probably being that it provides absolutely terrible battery life).
I mean realistically you would not be replacing the phone just because it hits EOL, maybe if you’re wealthy and/or have a higher threat model.
It’s really revolting to be forced to change phones just because of this.
A phone should be secured for way more than this!
helenslunchHonestly the short 5 year from original release till EOL thing really fucking annoys me
It’s 7 years now.
Although Americans typically keep their smartphones for 2.5 years, according to Statista, so 5 years seems more than long enough.
I would only buy a used one anyways. Even when they’re pretty new you can get good deals on swappa, even for new in box ones
My main issue with Pixels is their price, even the Pixel A
Have you priced out any comparable phones? They’re practically a steal at their discounted prices.
Most people around me carry budget phones under $200. so no, far from a steal.
I mean, that’s fine, but that absolutely does not make a $450 phone “completely unaffordable”…
Most people around me carry $1k+ iPhones.
You live in a richer area then. Most people where I live make less than 1k a month.
They’re not rich, they’re just stupid. They pay $25/mo or whatever for 80 years. It’s not wealth, it’s just shitty culture.
Well, too bad for them then. Taking a loan does not make a purchase easier, you pay even more anyway. So point still stands, a $450 phone IS an egregious lot, just not bsolutely insanely so.
Taking a loan does not make a purchase easier, you pay even more anyway
Yes, as I said, they’re stupid.
So point still stands, a $450 phone IS an egregious lot
No, it doesn’t. And no, it’s not. $450 gets you a SIGNIFICANTLY better device than $200. Probably 95% of available phones are well over $200. Just because you personally can’t afford it does not make it “egregious”.
Requirements exist. It’s just that device manufacturers don’t seem to care.
I think it’s more reasonable to look at Linux phones than GrapheneOS supporting anything beyond Pixels. I was hoping to get a Linux phone this time around, but they just don’t support the basic features well enough. Hopefully my next phone will be a Linux phone, but we’ll see.
Giving into Google hardware to escape Google software is a step I don’t want to take
Yeah, it’s annoying. However, it’s important to note that Google is generally really good about security, so it’s not a surprise that their phones have a lot of cool security features.
I also didn’t want to give Google money, so I bought a used Pixel and saved a ton of money. I got a Pixel 8 in like-new condition for <$400 on eBay after a big discount from an eBay sale, and I can expect 6+ years of updates (not just security updates, but OS updates). I’m really enjoying GrapheneOS so far. I guess I tangentially helped them, but at least my dollars_ didn’t go to Google.
That said, CalyxOS and DivestOS are also fine projects, and I seriously considered using them instead.
Unfortunately the fact that NFC can’t be used on anything that’s rooted anymore is kind of a deal breaker. If I could use google pay and my normal banking apps with GrapheneOS I would switch to it today.
Sorry, I don’t understand the motivation here, you want to not let Google spy on you via their OS, but are perfectly happy to give them your entire payment record?
Not my entire payment record but certainly everything I use my phone to pay for. I’m willing to give Google some of my info as long as I’m in control of what info I’m giving them. Everything I do on my phone is too much. If a 3rd party offered a NFC payment app I’d happily use that over GPay, but until that exists GPay is the only option. Ultimately GPay is safer than using actual credit cards because it’s more resistant to skimming. The extra security outweighs the loss of privacy in this specific case. I’m not happy about that but there doesn’t seem to be a better alternative at this time.
You know that if someone skims your card and makes a fraudulent purchase, you will likely be able to get your money back, right?
What do you think will happen if someone exploits a 0-day in GPay to do this? How could your bank know the purchase was fraudulent? At least with a card it is obvious that this can happen.
If you care about “secure” payments that much, why not use cash?
You know that if someone skims your card and makes a fraudulent purchase, you will likely be able to get your money back, right?
Sure but it’s a major pain in the ass. Every time it happens I have to cancel my current cards, request a new one, find all the services I’m currently paying with the now cancelled card and update them to a different card while I wait for the replacement, and then maybe remember to swap them back when the new card shows up. It doesn’t happen constantly but if I use cards to pay they seem to get skimmed about once every year or two.
What do you think will happen if someone exploits a 0-day in GPay to do this? How could your bank know the purchase was fraudulent? At least with a card it is obvious that this can happen.
Literally never happened before, but same way they know a credit charge is fraudulent, I tell them. Also if someone found a 0-day in GPay I wouldn’t be the only one complaining of fraudulent charges, they’d be flooded with complaints.
If you care about “secure” payments that much, why not use cash?
Because that’s a pain in the ass. I don’t care about “secure” payments, I care about not having to spend days dealing with the aftermath of it. Paying with cash means I need to constantly go to ATMs to withdraw money, and if I’m doing that my odds of getting my card skimmed actually go up so it doesn’t even protect my from that.
Literally never happened before, but same way they know a credit charge is fraudulent, I tell them.
The reason I brought this up is because I read a story of a European guy who had someone pay for something in Brazil using his card, through GPay. He didn’t get his money back, as the bank didn’t believe him (as GPay is supposed to be secure). Take this with a grain of salt though, as I can’t find this story now.
Also if someone found a 0-day in GPay I wouldn’t be the only one complaining of fraudulent charges, they’d be flooded with complaints.
Not necessarily. Maybe a company like Pegasus is already exploiting a 0-day to see the purchase history of people, but they’re smart enough to not attract attention by stealing.
Unfortunately the fact that NFC can’t be used on anything that’s rooted anymore is kind of a deal breaker.
NFC can be used on GOS, and they frown on rooting.
If I could use google pay and my normal banking apps with GrapheneOS I would switch to it today.
It’s due to PlayIntegrity API wanting a “Google certified OS,” which is ironically less secure than hardware attestation that GOS supports. I doubt Google would change their model, but your bank might. Some banks do support GOS, and they have changed at the request of their customers before. Send them the GOS documentation and you might get lucky.
not being able to use contactless pay does not equal “NFC can’t be used on anything”.
Technically you’re correct, but it’s effectively the same thing since I’ve literally never used NFC for anything besides contactless payment and initial phone setup when migrating from an older Android phone to a newer one. For most people NFC is synonymous with contactless payment.
it’s effectively the same thing since I’ve
big detail. I connect my Sony XM4s to my phone with NFC multiple times a day. not to mention that you still can use Google Pay on rooted devices with some workarounds. not to mention that some bank apps don’t use Google Pay for contactless payments at all. I’ve been paying via NFC with my bank app on a rooted phone for years until they scrapped their own solution and adopted the GPay approach instead.
Brad BoimlerIf you get a pixel watch you can pair it and use that for Google Pay FYI and have Graphene OS on your phone.
Lettuce eat lettuceBeen using GrapheneOS for close to 2 years, love it. Not perfect, but it’s solid & does everything I need well enough. Even with the minor bugs, it’s a hell of a lot better than having Google’s or any other vendor’s proprietary bloatware stuck on there.
I would say you should use GrapheneOS first, if you don’t have a Pixel, use DivestOS, if you can’t use that, use /e/. That’s the order I would put them in for security and privacy.
Not only is it still Android but the thing that the article says is special about it, blocking trackers and stuff, is trivial to do without installing a custom OS image. Change your DNS, trackers/ads gone.
Ultimately the real solution to a lot of these problems is likely to be a Linux phone OS. It’s something being actively worked on, but it’s still only half baked and I wouldn’t recommend anyone daily drive a Linux phone. Maybe in a few more years it will reach a state where it’s actually usable.
One thing that would help a lot is if some company stepped up to provide a platform agnostic NFC payment solution that worked on both iOS and Android. As far as I’m aware if you want NFC payment you have exactly one choice depending on your OS, and both Apple and Google brick NFC if you root your device.
I really want to use my PinePhone Pro, but it’s been in a box since the week I bought it.
I thought I was going to start hacking around, but then I didn’t have the time. It has everything I want from a phone, except for software.
Yup, I’ve been on the fence about buying one since the launch of the OG Pinephone. But I kept waiting until the software support for the things I need arrived (MMS and decent battery life), and that still seems to be unresolved.
I will hopefully have time to hack on it sometime in the next year or two, so I’ll probably get one eventually. Then again, maybe I’ll just ignore the problem until they release an update or something (would be awesome to get a new SOC with better power saving features).
PostmarketOS devs have made huge improvements over the past year. Some functions do not work simply due to the lack of drivers.
I love /e/OS, but it’s not better. I’ve had a lot of issues ranging from GPS being inaccurate, MMS not working, and most annoyingly : the play store alternative works (app lounge) works 1% of the time…
Which version and phone are you on ? I’m on “t” version on a Oneplus 7 et I have none of these issues.
I first installed the “s” version and got annoying bugs, then switched to the “t” one and everything was OK. I now all the version aren’t available on every devices, I hope you can switch on a more stable one.
1.8-r, which seems to be the official version
Oh I see that there are “t” versions which are much more up to date! (2.1, latest in 2024-05). I didn’t know about these versions, thank you so much.
Can you confirm that I’ll need to wipe everything to switch from R to T? Or is there a way to bridge to that version without data loss?
Oh I see that there are “t” versions which are much more up to date! (2.1, latest in 2024-05). I didn’t know about these versions, thank you so much.
Can you confirm that I’ll need to wipe everything to switch from R to T? Or is there a way to bridge to that version without data loss?
That’s great !
R and T should have a different android base, so, It would be safer to wipe everything while upgrading.
I like /e/OS, but the app lounge bothers me a lot. There is no uninstall button and it is not possible to add Fdroid repos… So I have Fdroid installed in addition to it.
I do not see an added value as if I had the aurora store installed + Fdroid.
IMO, the best addition of e/OS compared to lineage is clearly the tracker /ad blocker app.
Unless it has changed the app lounge is just a different frontend for Aurora store.
It has a confidentiality notation system based on exodus privacy, it make ut more visible than on the aurora store and the possibility to install app from fdroid, well, at least from the main repo as it is not possible to add more.
There is a high chance that they forked the aurora store, as, most (if not all) of their app are based on open source app. (but if so… why did they remove the option to uninstall app ??). Their app “maps” is just magic earth with an other name and icon.
kirk781I think the greatest hindrance to /e/ is the fact that so few devices are supported. The article lists Fairphone as a supported device but that doesn’t retail in my country. Most Chinese OEMs (that form the bulk in my nation) won’t be supported by it. I have had a Nokia and a Samsung but even those two models are nope. One would need to go with the express purpose of installing alternative OS’s and then purchase supported phones like Pixel probably, if they wanna indulge in this. But normal people aren’t gonna do this. They are going to purchase the phone that fits the price vs performance ratio for them rather than alternative OS criterion.
I’ve brought it up before with /e/, that because it’s based in Europe it tends to focus on the European market, IMO too much so. Lots of Europe-exclusive phones supported, barely any US-available phones that support tech like 5G (which is not available in Europe). If you want 5G in the US, you’re pretty much stuck with the Pixel or the Fairphone, and like you said, you also won’t find the Fairphone in a US store (though you can order one from /e/'s website in the US). While I did buy a Murena One (which is a cheap Chinese OEM) in the short time they were selling them in the US market on their website a couple years ago and I’m using it now, good luck finding a US carrier that will support it (T-Mobile was the only one that would) or a repair shop that will touch it if it breaks. I’ve dropped it a couple times and have a large area of dead pixels on the bottom of the screen, but nobody can get a replacement screen for it.
Huh? We in Netherlands have 5G
Yeah, it’s been pretty universal in the UK for at least the last couple of years. Not sure where this idea came from.
ඞmirtech like 5G (which is not available in Europe}
wtf are you talking about
It officially supports 250 variants including many going over a decade back. If one were to include all smartphone models/variants released during this decade, it won’t even hit the 10 % mark.
ExcrubulentI like that they offer options for people to contribute builds, as opposed to LineageOS that just says, “Your device isn’t supported? Lol, that sucks, die in a fire.”
No I’m serious they are not much friendlier about it than that: wiki.lineageos.org/devices/unknown/
deafboyAlmost every paragraph is it’s own, self-sufficient, malignant cancer. How did this even get published?
AI: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Even the name is a marketing turd
Dizzy Devil DuckyI would definitely try it, but all the phones I’ve been looking at recently don’t have any support whatsoever for any of those types of custom OS’s. No Lineage, no anything. All because they’re not flagship models and are more budget friendly phones (and have what I’m looking for: headphone jack and SD slot).
Todd BonzalezCan someone help me understand why headphone jacks and SD card slots are so important to people? All new phones have audio connections built into the USB-C port, and have enough onboard storage not to require any amount of expansion.
Is the lack of these features really a dealbreaker? I have a Pixel, with custom ROM, and consider myself a power user, and never miss those features at all.
SD cards were nice back when phones had like 16GB of onboard storage and you needed more space for apps and media, but with 512GB onboard storage and the ability to use cloud storage at Wifi 7 speeds, I couldn’t imagine needing more.
Integrated headphone jacks were nice before the vast majority of people used Bluetooth headphones. Even then, a tiny adapter lets me connect any of my old wired headphones or aux cables up no problem.
We’re 18 years into the smartphone age. When the first smartphones came out in 2006, microsd cards were only 2 years old. Now they’re 20 years old. Are we really surprised that this feature is no longer standard?
The 3.5mm headphone jack has been around since the 1950’s, and adapters have been required for tons of audio applications for even longer than that. Do we really need a 70-year-old port integrated into new phones?
I can’t speak to the sd card situation but I still prefer a headphone jack over Bluetooth. I would argue that the vast majority of people (as you put it) use Bluetooth headphones simply because they were forced into it.
Bluetooth is neat but it’s also old. You also can’t guarantee it will work everytime you need it. Whereas you could reasonably expect a headphone jack to work everytime.
Bluetooth also introduces significant latency (noticeable for gaming) and lower audio quality. What a bad deal.
Audio quality reduction might not be noticeable to the average user, as long as they don’t use the mic