Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I suddenly remembered the Agile Coach I pissed off a few years ago that angrily told me he had actually been a dev for two years fifteen years ago!
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Omg these people are ridiculously condescending
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Help. Why do folks love this book?
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Please. It is a mashup of 10 other pieces of original work.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
If only the mashup made sense. But it doesn’t.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024

I can’t. “This is how you simplify things for these silly dev folks who struggle to understand even basic stuff.”

“How to break down large domains”

If you think that there is a Perfect Org Breakdown for all the things I believe you don’t know anything about anything.

Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Fuck it. I will refuse to listen to anyone saying “team cognitive load” to my face.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I posit that this book is result of a bunch of folks who are personally struggling to understand how anything is ever built by anyone.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024

“Here is example number four of a team who struggled to keep up with requests after a lot of people started to use, love and depend on the thing the team had built”

“They are struggling because… actually… they are extremely dysfunctional and not actually… extremely successful”

Grrrrr 😡

Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I’m sure they TALKED WITH THEIR USERS ☠️ fuck that monolith behavior.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
You should break them up right now. This is the death of software.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Ok, they are ripping off everyone, but they don’t even understand the stuff they ripped off.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
“Here is someone else saying you shouldn’t introduce bottle necks. WELL ACTUALLY, that means PEOPLE SHOULDN’T TALK WITH EACH OTHER”
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I can’t. Sometimes they stumble into something I agree with and then five seconds later “ah, yes, someone else’s idea”
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
They are not even internally consistent because they’re ripping off everyone else: you should have stable long running teams, but you should definitely split up the teams because of this fucking number someone else made up which is unfortunately completely different than this other number someone else came up with which you should definitely also use. Except it is an order of magnitude bigger. So. Do that. Right? Get it?? COGNITIVE LOAD!!!
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Ok. That’s it. If you say Hot Desking is Good Actually… no.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
This book is made for cherry picking quotes to support whatever you want. Just make sure no one else can be bothered to read it.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I think maybe there isn’t a single thought that anyone has ever written about in tech that they haven’t taken into this book. But the only times they make logical sense is when they’re literally quoting other people’s text.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Seriously. I am going to become a software process Luddite after reading this. “Google big, Google scale, Google smart” “You not smart” “Make silos and don’t talk to anyone” “make API call to George, but not too often!”
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Dear lord they have now said that Netflix-Spotify-Nokia-Ericsson-Google-dhh-Amazon (and basically everyone else) do stuff and you should do stuff too. But don’t bother the pretty little heads of your cognitively struggling/overloaded teams of some size between 5 and 50 or something.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Breakdown silos by breaking up your long running teams! And… break up the team building database software because that’s basic stuff probably.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
We are not allowed to use the words Software Engineering before we stop reading these books.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I will never be allowed to work with any Agile Coach ever
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I need to make a T-shirt with this
https://social.vivaldi.net/@Patricia/112491591208560983
Patricia Aas (@[email protected])

I’m sure they TALKED WITH THEIR USERS ☠️ fuck that monolith behavior.

Vivaldi Social
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
This is completely true and also the most devastating burn: this book would’ve been an order of magnitude better if it was written by a large language model.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
This is basically just re-making the most dysfunctional orgs pre-DevOps but now with CLOUD! And Ops goes under 5 different names because the ideas have been taken from at least 5 other places. And for goodness sake: don’t talk, but also talk serendipitously while hot desking! And do stuff like Amazon and Google and Nokia and Spotify and… all of the orgs that have ever written about whatever they do.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024

And I sound smart and deep because AND THIS IS AN ACTUAL LITERAL QUOTE: “a stream should flow unimpeded”

I am deceased 💀

Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Why do I ever get imposter syndrome? I probably talked to people like a fucking monolith
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I know why this couldn’t have been a blogpost: it doesn’t make sense and you can’t hide that in a blog post, people might actually read it all.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I’m gonna try one of these talks… maybe they’re… something
https://mastodon.cloud/@grymt/112491761784898442
Gry (@[email protected])

@[email protected] not sure what's worse, but it's useful to have a look so you know when someone have been too inspired https://teamtopologies.com/talks

mastodon.cloud
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I feel bad. I’m sure these folks are perfectly nice people. I probably shouldn’t be allowed to read. But then it would only be fair that no one was ever allowed to quote these books at me.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Ok, it’s been ages since I read about “the Spotify model” but iirc they have written later about changes they made because some stuff didn’t work, but most importantly I seem to remember that a central part was to try stuff and continue with stuff that works for you and drop stuff that don’t? Am I totally misremembering this? Any Spotify people out there?
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Oh no the talk doesn’t seem to be better
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Ok, I need to know, is it me? Am I just really bad at understanding? What the hell is he talking about? Explain it to me like I’m five in 5 sentences. Please.
https://youtu.be/lj71GcOnIW8?si=hb6TUrdKn38MSMBd
Beyond the Spotify Model: using Team Topologies for fast Flow and Organisation Evolution

YouTube
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I feel like the kid in “The Emperor's New Clothes” … am I completely disconnected from reality here?
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
I’m either having some kind of cognitive break or this is just a org-agile-tech-wordsoup
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
Seriously. Please. Watch the video. Am I nuts?
Show threadWildEnteMay 23, 2024
@Patricia do I have to? I struggle dealing with any of that dogmatic stuff.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
@WildEnte Just tell me if it makes sense in any cohesive way even if it’s patently wrong - because I feel like I might’ve lost the ability to parse language
Show threadWildEnteMay 23, 2024
@Patricia deductive reasoning is usually hard to follow when the formulated deductions require the listener to believe that what is said is true.
Show threadPatricia Aas
@WildEnte from that I deduce that I would be ready to believe whatever anyone said as long as it sounded vaguely like whatever I felt like hearing 🙈
May 23, 2024 at 8:33pmWeb
Show threadWildEnteMay 23, 2024
@Patricia I can't help but say: sounds about right!
Show threadWildEnteMay 23, 2024

@Patricia but I actually meant it the other way around. If you you really don't feel that there is truth in what is said, then you'll need to bend over backwards to try and make sense of the logic that is presented.

The other way around is also true. If the reasoning I hear supports that what I feel is right, it's making me happier in my bubble. Welcome to the world of echo chambers.

I always struggle with all of these cultural models, because everyone tries to sell a one size fits all. Doesn't exist. If nothing else helps, quote Yōji Akao: Copy the spirit, not the form.

Do they want the right thing? People to feel good about the work they do, the fulfillment of having done a good job? If so (I have only watched snippets of the video so can't really tell) then cherry pick the things that make sense to you and ignore the rest that doesn't.

Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
@WildEnte I don’t think making stuff that is useful/good is even vaguely a goal here. There might be something in here that is basically about trying to optimize for churning out stuff as fast as possible without having to talk to anyone else.
Show threadWildEnteMay 23, 2024
@Patricia yeah well ... not talking to anyone else doesn't sound like anything I'd promote.
Show threadPatricia AasMay 23, 2024
@WildEnte I am completely with you on that