HypxUS can’t meet EV copper demand, study finds
US can’t meet EV copper demand, study finds
https://www.eenews.net/articles/us-cant-meet-ev-copper-demand-study-finds/
andrewth09Metal Theft sector booming. Meth stocks are up.
SanctusIts almost like the answer isn’t some whimsical butler just for you, but fucking public transportation. Build fucking trains.
Agreed. I love trains and it frustrates me to see them bungling the implementation. When they try, they always seem to make the same mistakes trying to bring it to my area.
To see meaningful ridership out here, the train needs to go fast enough to negate the penalty you get at the other end when you have to go from the station to your destination. They wanted to run them at ~55-70mph here, with a few stops between major cities, to parallel a freeway that is 65-75mph. Drive 1 hour (1:10 with parking) or spend 2 hours going to the station, riding a slow train, then going from the station to where you are going? I hate cars, but as someone who only gets a handful of hours to myself after sleep, work, and chores, I’m going to save my time and pick the car. If they ever build the train, as it is planned right now, it’ll just be another commuter train that’s only really used at rush hour when the roads are jammed rather than an all day all week car replacement solution that I can ride to Sunday night dinner at a friends house as easily as a 6am meeting.
/un-requested rant
Trams are the future!
Chemical WonkaSo it’s time to a coup d’etat on Chile AGAIN!
Or more child slavery, maybe? Sorry, that is for batteries.
for god “Capital”
I always find it ironic that people with the most money are always the hungriest for it. Their entire lives revolve around it, and they are willing to pay any other price for it. They will kill ecosystems, pollute everything and even destroy societies for it.
Power does not corrupt, it only attracts the corrupted
Maybe build ebikes instead of EVs?
Then you’d need about 1/50th to 1/100th the copper.
Yes, and also build trains instead of EVs
يا ليتني كوري شمالي Trains don’t even need batteries
Don’t forget tramlines.
Use Aluminum! There’s nothing about copper that at this point aluminum couldn’t really do.
Tell me you don’t know physics without telling me…
Give me an example where you think you got the upper hand on aluminum knowledge. LOL. Yeah it’s harder to work with. But it’s lighter and metallurgy has very little to do with the reasons why it’s not used. I’ll wait here while you go scrambling through Google’s shitty results.
I don’t have to, its electrical and thermal properties are trash compared to copper. There’s a reason copper is used EVERYWHERE it matters by electrical engineers. I trust them :)
…stackexchange.com/…/reason-not-to-use-aluminium-…
But you also should know that motors are controlled with high frequency voltages. That sort of RF actually travels down the material’s skin rather than through the core. This Aluminum, being lighter, can also be made to have a larger surface area. You would get a kick if you knew what I do for work and fun.
I also almost forgot about our good friend Carbon.
www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/…/full
Yeah it’s properties are also shit.
All-Carbon Conductors for Electronic and Electrical Wiring Applications
Electrical conductors based on carbons have recently attracted a growing interest due to the prospect of replacing metals. Electrical conductors without metals could represent not only an alternative for traditional wiring, but also a step forward in the progress and advancing of technology. This result can be achieved by combining high electrical conductivity with other properties, that are dexterity, light weight, environmental stability, high strength and flexibility. As the best mechanical properties, high electrical/thermal conductivity of the assembled fibers are all generally associated with low concentration of defects in the fiber backbone and in the individual carbon “building blocks”, a special attention is paid to an empirical relationship between morphology/structure/composition and the electrical properties. In this review, starting from the beginning, from the late 19th century, when the carbon filaments became the lights for urban streets, some of the recent developments in the field of “all-carbon” electrical conductors are discussed. Such conductors can be obtained by assembling nanoscale carbons (i.e., carbon nanotubes, graphene) into macroscopic fibers, yarns and ropes (hereafter fibers). In this perspective, the role played by the chemistry in particular by means of the molecular-level control and doping, is emphasized. This contribution elucidates most recent results in the field, and envisages new potential applications.
Aluminum coil transformers produce more waste heat and are more susceptible to vibration than copper coil.
Ev motors are big coils.
It’s gotta be copper.
As an example:
By weight (mass) aluminum is about twice as good a conductor as copper. This is important when they are hanging high-voltage wires from towers
Not my words. You’re wrong. The problem is 1) enamel coating research. 2) the strength of the material. Aluminum that is formable into wire is just darn soft and can easily fracture from bending. 3) I would say is the issue with not being able to solder to it. It has to be crimped connections which may fail due to corrosion. But all these are fixable problems. Aluminum is a conductor that is on par with copper for usability, and it is way more abundant.
I mean, you’re right, but we can’t use braided aluminum wire to make the coils in transformers and motors, so aluminums greater conductivity by mass is undercut by not being able to take advantage of that property because the engineering for motors and transformers dictates solid wire of a specific diameter.
Also an aluminum winding transformer or motor needs a bigger slug to deal with the more than double resistivity and at some point the benefits of aluminums cheapness and lightness disappear when you gotta have more heavy iron in the core, more heat and more winding failure due to vibration.
I don’t think that means we’re not gonna see ev motors with aluminum windings, just that they’ll be in shitty cheap vehicles for poor people.
And it is being tried right now: electricmotorengineering.com/aluminium-windings/
Aluminium windings? - Electric Motor Engineering
Copper, material typically used for the windings of conventional electric motors, is more expensive and heavier than aluminium. For this reason as well, they have started the first experimentations of aluminium windings for electric motors, expected to replace a fundamental role, that is to say generating the electromagnetic field for the rotor. Concerning this, protagonist […]
Some of the stuff about that company says it’s doing aluminum windings and some of it says they’re doing no windings with flux barriers and air gaps. What’s up with that, different experimental technologies?
I’m skeptical of their claims about it being environmentally friendly since more stuff made out of aluminum means more aluminum being pulled out of the ground, but it’ll be interesting to see that develop.
aluminum is only 61% as conductive as copper, but it weighs 2x less. it is used in overhead high voltage cable.
Either way they’d have to rip out new ore, probably burning carbon to dig it up. Then smelt it, using more carbon, then transport the metal and turn it into an EV. Seems like developing more effecient forms of transportation would be a lot more green than selling everyone a new “green” electric vehicle.
Agreed. Fuck cars. But if you just gotta have that big monster truck, go with aluminum core motors. Less mass means more acceleration. There’s less inertia.
Tell me you don’t know physics without telling me…
No one uses pennies anymore…
Just sayin’.
If I’m reading this chart correctly, each penny is only 2.5% copper.
dumblederpThey’ll start mining landfill for metals and probably plastic soon enough. Air it out, wash it, get the metal and plastic, don’t worry about that other in the air/water, that’s a future poor person’s problem.
metals, sure. The problem with plastics is that plastic is not plastic, it’s a plethora of different chemical structures. Very difficult to recycle some of them, even if sorted.
“Recycling the plastic” in my tip-mine dystopia fantasy would be what they called burning plastic to fire the smelt to get the metals out. They’re gonna burn rubbish for metal and market it as a good thing, someone will get paid a lot of money to think of a word like reclamation.
If it’s incinerated properly, burning the old plastic shouldn’t be much different from burning other hydrocarbons.
I’d rather they burned up plastics from landfills than coal, and probably oil and gas too really.
This can be improved if all vehicles moved to a full 40v architecture. Substantially less copper that way.
Deploy the crackheads!
Time to sanction Chinese copper producers
It’s almost like… TRAMS ARE THE FUCKING SOLUTION