Elijah WaxwingMay 7, 2024

Protonmail is cop friendly. Any reasonable privacy aware email provider would hash the secondary email, not store it as cleartext. I implemented secondary email hashing for Riseup to prevent exactly this thing, over a decade ago.

https://restoreprivacy.com/protonmail-discloses-user-data-leading-to-arrest-in-spain/

Proton Mail Discloses User Data Leading to Arrest in Spain

Proton Mail came under scrutiny for its role in a legal request by the Spanish authorities leading to the identification and arrest of a user.

RestorePrivacy
Show threadJustin !May 7, 2024
@elijah also, not logging user IPs is the bare minimum if you want to call yourself a secure email provider.
Show threadTony “Abolish ICE” Arcieri🌹🦀May 8, 2024

@just1602 @elijah Signal feels like the gold standard here. This is how they respond to subpoenas:

https://signal.org/blog/looking-back-as-the-world-moves-forward/

Looking back at how Signal works, as the world moves forward

In the midst of world-wide protests against racism and police brutality, a lot of people are becoming more immediately aware and concerned about the security of their data and online communication. We’ve gotten a lot of questions at Signal over the past week, so we wanted to briefly recap how it ...

Signal Messenger
Show threadElijah Waxwing
@bascule @just1602 Agreed. I have held off on fully recommending Signal for all situations because of phone numbers, but now that Signal has disposable handles there is no other protocol that comes close: forward secret, asynchronous, blind envelopes, secure contact discovery, encrypted multiplexing, unlinked handles... Each of these was a major technical innovation that moxie and Trevor and the Signal team deserve credit for. It would be nice if call routing proxy was enabled by default, but I understand why it is not. Email will never be able to combine those
May 8, 2024 at 1:48amWeb
Show threadsrijitMay 9, 2024
@elijah @bascule @just1602

Unfortunately, unlike email, there is no browser based web app for using Signal Messenger to the best of my knowledge. Installation of Signal app is necessary on any platform and this may not be appreciated by many potential users. Though Signal Messenger has disposable username handles, phone number is still mandatory only for registration and this can be a source of discomfort for some. Many countries require identification to buy a sim card. Also recovery e-mail is not compulsory for using Proton Mail.

However, I appreciate the innovations of Signal app towards defending free speech and communication.

#Signalapp #Signal #Proton #Protonmail
Show threadDelta ChatMay 14, 2024
@elijah @bascule @just1602 let's see :) Over at delta chat and with the growing https://delta.chat/en/chatmail ecosystem we are getting into a position to consistently and collaboratively change server+client sides in lock step. Moxies 2016 criticism of decentralisation arguably boils down to the difficulty of moving such a diverse server/client ecosystem, not to any inherent limits of email itself.
Delta Chat: Chatmail for instant, interoperable and privacy-preserving messaging

What are chatmail servers and how to select one? Chatmail servers provide a privacy-preserving and speedy messaging experience, securely interoperable with chatmail and classic e-mail servers. Tap ...

Show threadElijah WaxwingMay 14, 2024
@delta @bascule @just1602 while I think Delta Chat is awesome and I really appreciate all the work people have put into it, SMTP can't support blinded envelopes so you will never get true metadata protection. You could extend SMTP, but then you might as well just fork Signal and remove phone numbers (as some have done already) and add federation. OpenPGP can certainly simulate "good enough" forward secrecy by having short-lived sub keys, if and when key discovery is actually solved
Show threadholgaMay 14, 2024
@elijah @delta @bascule @just1602 why would it be impossible to have sealed sender/ blinded envelopes via SMTP? Already a lot of metadata is put into the encrypted part (https://delta.chat/en/help#message-metadata ) and in principle the outer From address could also be untied from the sending identity and the actual from then put into the protected part of a message so that the recipient can still verify authenticity.
Delta Chat: FAQ

What is Delta Chat? Delta Chat is a reliable, decentralized and secure instant messaging app, available for mobile and desktop platforms. Instant creation of private chat profiles with secure and i...

Show threadElijah WaxwingMay 14, 2024
@hpk @delta @bascule @just1602 Yes, you can encrypt the From, but it breaks bounces and opens up a huge spam problem, and would be rejected by most SMTPd. You really want to protect delivery metadata from both the sending and receiving SMTPd servers. Assuming totally custom STMPd, you could have a key pair for each server, so that sender's client encrypts the "To" using the public key of the recipient's server, and the "From" using the public key of the sender's server. This could work fine, with minimal protocol changes (e.g. bounces work normally, server reputation and spam prevention work normally). Which leaves open the problem of two users on the same server. You would have to come up with some very un-SMTP system for this. Basically, what Signal does, and have per-recipient delivery tokens that let you deliver to an SMTPd unauthenticated, through open relays. Not impossible at all, just not really SMTP.
Show threadholgaMay 15, 2024
@elijah @delta @bascule @just1602 are you aware of the current operational characteristics of https://delta.chat/en/chatmail
https://github.com/deltachat/chatmail ?
It's open signup. Addresses are created by logging into the server, no invite or registration neccessary. It's a fundamentally different model from traditional providers. Thinking about sealed sender is easier because DC could use temp throwaway addresses easily for sending and because server/client can evolve together quite quickly.
Delta Chat: Chatmail for instant, interoperable and privacy-preserving messaging

What are chatmail servers and how to select one? Chatmail servers provide a privacy-preserving and speedy messaging experience, securely interoperable with chatmail and classic e-mail servers. Tap ...

Show threadholgaMay 15, 2024
@elijah @delta @bascule @just1602 if you haven't seen it maybe https://delta.chat/en/2023-12-13-chatmail#how-to-make-e-mail-spammers-sad-and-users-safe is good to read as background. I am sure you have critique and skepticism. Happy to jump on a call sometime. It's all even related to some original LEAP goals :)
Delta Chat: Chatmail - replicable, fast and secure chatting infrastructure for all

Today, we are unveiling chatmail services, making onboarding with Delta Chat a breeze, with peace of mind: Convenience: Get a chatmail address in a few seconds Privacy: No questions asked, no name,...