Mastodawn

Augie Ray May 7, 2024

"I'm so angry at Biden over Isreal/Gaza that I'm going to help Trump destroy democracy, weaponize the Justice system, send millions to deportation camps, lower the taxes on the wealthy and shift the burden to the middle class, cut Social Security, track and prosecute women having abortions, pardon the people who violently attacked Capitol police, dismantle NATO, help Russia, AND ON TOP OF ALL THAT do even more harm to Palestinians" is a take--it's just a really awful take, IMO.

Evan Prodromou May 7, 2024

"I support this war so much that I'm going to ignore the position of the vast majority of my constituents and party members even though it endangers our chances of re-election in the Fall" is also a take.

@evan @augieray please provide the tiniest bit of evidence that Biden is ignoring the position of his constituents.

This is a straw man, you know it's a straw man, but you're putting it out there nevertheless.

Evan Prodromou May 7, 2024

@Amoshias @augieray there is a war.

Augie Ray May 7, 2024

@evan @Amoshias And there will be more war if Trump is elected.

@augieray @evan @Amoshias it's unfortunate that Trump's war on decency is ongoing

Evan Prodromou May 7, 2024

@augieray @Amoshias I hate Donald Trump, but I don't know if what you say is strictly true. His form of nationalist populism largely withdrew the US from overseas interventions. He did, however, support provocative activities in Israel like moving the embassy to Jerusalem.

Texty the Bard May 7, 2024

@evan @augieray @Amoshias Generic anti-interventionism doesn't stop war. It just lets monsters like Putin do whatever they feel like doing.

Texty the Bard May 7, 2024

@evan @augieray @Amoshias Also, "I don't care if Trump outright murders millions of Americans if he also pulls us out of NATO" is one hell of a take.

Evan Prodromou May 7, 2024

@textualdeviance @augieray @Amoshias who said that? I'm just saying, having lived through some hawkish administrations, I don't think that a Trump administration is as likely to find reasons to go to war as, say, the first Bush administration. You make a good point that a less engaged US may result in more wars between other parties, though.

Amoshias May 7, 2024

@evan @textualdeviance @augieray so in the past, has Trump lived up to your expectations?

Evan Prodromou May 7, 2024

@Amoshias @textualdeviance @augieray whew. Not sure. He was really bad, but we survived as a country, which I wasn't always confident of. I'd say, he was not quite as bad as my worst fears, but he got close.

Amoshias May 7, 2024

@evan @textualdeviance @augieray So based on that... "We survived as a country"...

You are willing to assume that Trump's not going to start any wars.

That's...

Interesting.

Meanwhile, I and every other Jew I know are making plans to flee the country, so I certainly hope that your assumption that Trump won't start any wars, based - as it is - on absolute nothing, is correct.

Evan Prodromou May 7, 2024

@Amoshias @textualdeviance @augieray Wow, that sounds terrible, to be chased out of your own country.

Amoshias May 7, 2024

@evan @textualdeviance @augieray you say that like you think you are making some incredible point :-)

Evan Prodromou May 7, 2024

@Amoshias @textualdeviance @augieray I'm not. Nobody should have to go through that.

Texty the Bard May 7, 2024

@evan @Amoshias @augieray I have extended family who had to evacuate *Israel* because of shit going down. The majority of Israelis don't want Bibi in office, much less doing what he's doing (have you seen the scale of the protests?) But they also don't want to be targets for Hamas, Iran or any of the other hostile entities in the region. The whole area is an absolute mess, all because assholes are fighting over who's entitled to own all of it. And Biden can't change that. No one can.

Evan Prodromou May 7, 2024

@textualdeviance @Amoshias @augieray Sorry to hear that.

Texty the Bard May 7, 2024

@evan @Amoshias @augieray "We" survived? And the million-plus COVID deaths due to completely fucked up handling of the pandemic are meaningless, I guess?

Also, I'll remind you that had Democrats not taken the House in 2018, things would have been much, much worse. He won't make that mistake again. Believe him when he tells you he wants to go full dictator.

Evan Prodromou May 7, 2024

@textualdeviance @Amoshias @augieray I meant, there is still a United States.

Texty the Bard May 7, 2024

@evan @Amoshias @augieray There is still a Russia under Putin. Doesn't mean it's not a fucked-up mess with sham elections and violent oppression.

Evan Prodromou May 7, 2024

@textualdeviance @augieray So, @Amoshias asked if Trump has lived up to my expectations. I thought about it sincerely, and tried to think back to 2016, and about how bad I expected things to get under Trump, and that they didn't quite get as bad as I was worried they would.

I am not trying to say that Trump was not very, very terrible and that he did, and continues to do, extreme damage to the USA and the rest of the world.

Texty the Bard May 8, 2024

@evan @augieray Let me guess: You're a cishet guy. Probably white. Yes? Because if you don't think loading up SCOTUS with a bunch of theocrats and laying waste to the legal principle of the right to privacy is dire, then it's clearly because you don't think you've lost anything, nor stand to lose more.

Wonder if you'll still feel the same when they ban porn.

Evan Prodromou May 8, 2024

@textualdeviance @augieray

In 2016, I was worried he was going to use nukes.

He didn't.

That's why it wasn't as bad as I was worried about.

That doesn't mean it wasn't very bad.

"Not as bad as I was worried about" is a pretty low bar here.

Texty the Bard May 8, 2024

@evan @augieray The only reason he didn't is because he didn't have Congress on his side to let him do it. There's a much, much bigger chance of that happening next time. Having SCOTUS in his pocket--especially if they grant him immunity, as expected--will give him free rein to do some unimaginably bad shit. He'll make Putin look like an amateur. The stakes for the entire planet--especially wrt the climate crisis--are the highest they've been in generations. We as a species are fucked if he wins

Texty the Bard May 8, 2024

@evan @augieray Biden isn't perfect. But he's not "let the military loose on US soil to murder dissidents by the thousands" bad.

Amoshias May 7, 2024

@evan @augieray oh. I forgot that as the duly elected president of the United States Biden has the ability to stop any war anywhere in the world.

My bad.

Jérôme May 7, 2024

@Amoshias @evan @augieray Your sarcastic tone doesn't help you when you consider how much weapons and money is being sent in support of Israel right now from the US government. He might not be able to "stop" the war, but he could stop funding it.

Amoshias May 7, 2024

@jerome @evan @augieray even that, I don't think is completely clear - if you recall, the last president got in a spot of trouble for not sending out aid that Congress had authorized. But I think it's legitimately debatable and a very arguable point.

What people are actually saying - what I'm responding to- is so ridiculous and over the top that it deserves nothing but sarcasm.

Jérôme May 7, 2024

@Amoshias @evan @augieray i guess there’s nothing the president of the United States can do then! He did all he could already, just have to keep sending all those weapons and money to Israel forever.

Amoshias May 7, 2024

@jerome @evan @augieray yes, you are absolutely right. The proper response to me saying "I think there are nuanced points to be made and discussed here, but the ridiculous, over the top nonsense being spouted by idiots who are happy to accept fascism as long as they get to yell at people along the way" is... ridiculous, over the top nonsense.

Well played.