Wintermute_BBS

I've been asked wether the recent end-of-production announce-
ment for the #Zilog #Z80 #CPU will have any effect on my projects, #rc2014bbs etc. - the answer is: for me, it won't change a thing.

Z80s will probably be widely available for the next few years
and even if their availability will dimnish after some 20+
years into the future, this will not affect me, my projects
or any of the retro things I do.

Just remember: other silicon has been out of production for decades now but you can still get most of it, albeit after some serious hunting.

So just don't worry.

Fun fact: before I discovered #rc2014 I believed that the Z80
was already out of production.

Maybe there'll be some licensing going on and 3rd party
manufactueres will re-issue the chip. And let's not forget the
land of the dragon, where counterfeit silicon has a long
tradition.

So much on that topic.

Still, I'm glad to have these babies in stock ...

#EndOfProduction
#RetroComputiing

Apr 21, 2024 at 2:40pmWeb
Show threadSpace HoboApr 21, 2024
@Wintermute_BBS Any thoughts on the eZ80 and other non-discontinued models being catered to in rc2014 development?
Show threadWintermute_BBSApr 21, 2024
@spacehobo not yet. @rc2014 mentions the possibility to adapt to these models in his blog post, but this is merely a hypothetical thought and I, personally, am not familliar with the eZ80 models.
Show threadPeter MountApr 21, 2024
@Wintermute_BBS @spacehobo @rc2014 they tend to be qfp style chips with several interfaces included like multiple serial ports and gpio on board
Show threadPeter MountApr 21, 2024

@Wintermute_BBS the only downside of this will be, when stocks run dry of the dip versions.

But I'd expect alternatives to be available before then, using either the existing non dip chips or even emulation

Show threadWintermute_BBSApr 21, 2024
@peter this is probably the most realistic scenario.
Show threadPeter MountApr 21, 2024

@Wintermute_BBS indeed.

This is the reason for emulation that could be a way around it for dip with the chip in a pico, so if that can be done then a raw processor can be

https://github.com/fruit-bat/pico-zxspectrum

GitHub - fruit-bat/pico-zxspectrum: ZX Spectrum for Raspberry Pico Pi RP2040

ZX Spectrum for Raspberry Pico Pi RP2040. Contribute to fruit-bat/pico-zxspectrum development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub
Show threadWintermute_BBSApr 21, 2024

@peter you know, given the many people who pimp their STs and Amigas with PiStorm devices, I really don't worry about what solutions there may be in the future. 🤷‍♂️​

Even more: there will be the day when ESP32s become rare items of retro pleasure. Remember my words ... 😎​

Show threadWintermute_BBSApr 21, 2024
@peter I have #ESPectrum running on a #Liliygo #VGA32 #ESP32 board and it's wonderful!
Show threadPeter MountApr 21, 2024

@Wintermute_BBS Indeed.

Got a pi as a second processor for the BBC master but another ready to put into the acorn universal coprocessor cheese wedge so my model b's & electron can use.

That said if the Pico can emulate a z80 then it's not long before someone gets one to talk me natively to a real bus.

On the c64, there's already new Sid emulations so it's doable

Show threadWintermute_BBSApr 21, 2024
@peter indeed. I already use ArmSID and SwinSID devices so I don't have to sacrifice any original chips and can keep those in their original machines.
Show threadMorgan GangwereApr 21, 2024
@peter @Wintermute_BBS there are z80 fpga cores that fit in small package cheap chips now that we can pretendo them. Even JIT optimize in some cases.
Show threadDevlin Apr 21, 2024
@Wintermute_BBS land of the dragon? Wales doesn't have a counterfeit silicon problem 😉😛
Show threadWintermute_BBSApr 21, 2024
@devlin of course not, I am very sorry! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿​
Show threadChris Apr 21, 2024
@Wintermute_BBS maybe you get grip to a U880 ;) hrhrhr #Z80 #zilog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U880
U880 - Wikipedia

Show threadWintermute_BBSApr 21, 2024
@totenlegionChris I suppose I have one here in my Ice Felix ZX Spectrum clone from Romania ...
Show threadChris Apr 21, 2024
@Wintermute_BBS Wow I have the documentation of the signals when the engineers ripped the Z80 down layer by layer and reversed the logic :D
Show threadWintermute_BBSApr 21, 2024
@totenlegionChris rare stuff, and historic documents as well. how'd you get those?!
Show threadChris Apr 21, 2024
@Wintermute_BBS they wanted to throw away this piece of history from the library and so I took it ;)
Show threadWintermute_BBSApr 21, 2024
@totenlegionChris glad you did! 👍​
Show threadChris Apr 21, 2024
@Wintermute_BBS Funny thing, that they found some bugs in the design. ... Btw. the book is still on the market as used but only in German. Author:
Dipl.-Ing. Heiko Kieser und Dr.-Ing. Michael Meder
Title:
Mikroprozessortechnik, Aufbau und Anwendung des Mikroprozessorsystems U880
ISBN:
3341001530
Show threadWintermute_BBSApr 21, 2024
@totenlegionChris oh that's interesting. got to keep my eyes open for that one.
Show threadThe Penguin of EvilApr 21, 2024
@Wintermute_BBS There are certainly companies that specialize in this but they are not usually cheap, since their business model is essentially "sell legacy parts at a high price to those who have dug themselves into a deep hole and have large pockets"
Show threadWintermute_BBSApr 21, 2024
@etchedpixels still, I don't think this will happen all over sudden and anytime soon. This will happen slowly. But the risk is there.