In a world where certain questions can't be asked, it's no wonder there are no clear answers. The elephant in the room is #capitalism, but mentioning it is a taboo. It's like trying to solve a puzzle with missing pieces or painting a picture without the right colors. Without acknowledging the root cause of many issues, we're left grasping at straws, hoping for a solution that may never come.

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@yogthos

"The elephant in the room is #capitalism, but mentioning it is a taboo."

Since when? People have been promoting and criticising it openly for at least a hundred years; really, much longer.

@AlexanderKingsbury there is very little serious criticism of capitalism in western mainstream, and there's certainly no serious discussion about abandoning capitalism, or how that could be practically accomplished.

If you mean that screaming into the void while not being able to affect any tangible change is allowed, then sure.

@yogthos

There's plenty of serious discussion about it. Whether or not that discussion is "mainstream" is a vague question, but even if it's not, that hardly makes the topic "taboo"; just uncommon.

If you feel like you're screaming into the void, well, perhaps what you're screaming simply does not resonate with most of the people you're screaming at.

@AlexanderKingsbury if you say so

@yogthos

I mean, you're more than welcome to keep trying what you have been doing. How's it been working out?

@AlexanderKingsbury works fine for me and I'm absolutely not looking for your approval

@yogthos

I never imagined you were looking for anyone's approval. You just seem to claim you're effectively "shouting into the void". I guess if you find that satisfying and worthwhile, you do you.

@AlexanderKingsbury seems like I did not make myself clear, I was not referring to myself, I was making a general statement that there is no actual discussion about capitalism in the west that can translate into any meaningful action towards abolishing this despotic system

@yogthos

That may be part of the issue right there. Not a lot of people regard it as "despotic" at all. People aren't going to be super receptive to ideas about how to get rid of something they don't see as a problem.

@AlexanderKingsbury and that's why things in the west will continue to deteriorate further into social unrest and system collapse

@yogthos

And if you want to respond to that with ineffective conversational tactics and scream into the void, again, you do you. I submit for your consideration that it's probably better to talk with people rather than scream at them, if you want things to improve.

@AlexanderKingsbury I'm not sure who's screaming at you here, you seem genuinely upset and keep trying to put words in my mouth, maybe try take your own advice there and reflect on your communication strategy because it's frankly off-putting

@yogthos

You're the one who compared what you do with screaming into the void. I'm not upset at all; I simply took you at your word.

@AlexanderKingsbury you sealioned into my post giving unsolicited advice and taking what I said out of context, not really sure what your goal there was

@yogthos

"Sealioned"? Nonsense. That's the sort of ad hominem attack made by someone who has no actual response to the substance of the conversation, so they resort to attacking the person.

@AlexanderKingsbury you really gotta work on your troll game kiddo, it's very sad and obvious

@AlexanderKingsbury @yogthos
Want serious discussion, discuss this without blythely dismissing it. Here's where you can find an alternative to traditional capitalism:

#CommonsCapitalism

#COMMONSCAPITALISMPRIMER

This describes an economic system that can outcompete traditional capitalism in a market economy in virtually any industry. It will play by all the same rules and laws used by traditional capitalists. Once it is in place, it will gradually replace traditional capitalism.

@AlexanderKingsbury @yogthos
Your's is not a serious discussion; as I said don't blythely dismiss it as socialism. Why don't you add that I'm promoting communism?

@Cirdan @yogthos

You can claim my discussion is not serious all you want; I'm not the one responding with "okay" and nothing else. I don't claim you're promoting communism because A. I understand the general meaning of that term and B. I'm not generally in the habit of claiming things I don't think are true.

@AlexanderKingsbury @yogthos
I responded "OK" because your comments basically about Commons Capitalism were 1) it's just socialism, so let's dismiss it and 2) it won't work, which is usually the way traditional capitalists avoid having a sincere discussion about it.

@Cirdan @yogthos

And you're more than free to respond with "okay", That does nothing to move the discussion forward. It is not a meaningful response or answer.

@AlexanderKingsbury @yogthos
At that point, I saw no good reason for further dialog. That was a polite way of ending it.

@Cirdan @yogthos

And that demonstrates to me that you are either unable or unwilling to provide a meaningful counterpoint.

@AlexanderKingsbury @yogthos
A counterpoint to what? That Commons Capitalism isn't socialism or that it won't work?

@Cirdan @yogthos

Well, at that point in the conversation, the specific thing being discussed was whether or not capitalism is ethical. You seemed confused about whether is is, itself, a system of ethics, or whether a separate system of ethics can be used to measure it.

@AlexanderKingsbury @yogthos
No. Capitalism has no ethics as one of it's components. I'm not confused about that.

@Cirdan @yogthos

"But capitalism itself has no code of ethics short of the federal and state penal codes."

@AlexanderKingsbury @yogthos
That's correct. But those are not codes of ethics.

@Cirdan @yogthos

Seems an odd way to phrase it, then. You could just say "Capitalism has no ethics". Not "it has no ethics short of these other things".

If I said "this meal has no gluten in it short of the amaranth meal", that at least suggests that amaranth meal has gluten in it.

@AlexanderKingsbury @yogthos
Sorry. I'm just talking like a lawyer. There's a clear delineation between a code of ethics and criminal laws.

@Cirdan @yogthos

I agree. There is a clear delineation. Neither, however, is part of capitalism. Capitalism is not a legal system, it is an economic one. The only legal ideas you could draw out of it are that its tenets should be protected, but that's hardly it being a legal system. It just demonstrates that a legal system is necessary to protect it.

@AlexanderKingsbury @yogthos
I don't want to get buried in the semantics but the laws are probably part of the political aspect of capitalism.

My point is that capitalism is proscribed by regulations and penal statutes. For some in capitalism, those are their only bounds.

@Cirdan @yogthos

You can dismiss it as "semantics" all you want. For better or for worse, words mean things, and it's important to have a common understanding of those meanings when trying to have an actual discussion.