Dig deeper, find more.
@Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
When you think of NFTs, what do you have in mind? If the answer is images of apes or rocks which sell for hundreds of thousands of $ or even millions, I once more urge you to dig deeper. From the outside everything might look like a casino, a scam, toy money or stupid jpegs. While that is part of it, there's no reason denying that, it's not the entire picture. Critics love that image and I get it, it sure makes for good jokes, but don't stop there.
@Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
There are NTFs with real world utility. I just wanted to add that here because otherwise people only think about the three NFT projects they already know. That would be a shame.
@Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
https://empowa.io/project/collateral-nft/
There's a little FAQ at the end. I can't expect you to get what the project is about instantly as you've most likely never heard of it before. You can of course browse their entire web presence to learn more.
@errorbody @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
So it's a pyramid collection which may benefit 2 families which might turn into 100. The current value of $EMP means it's about $37 a share and then how many houses can be built for $37 grand?
But then $EMP lost half its trading value over the year. Why use a volatile barely trading currency instead of just a regular currency? The benefits might attract children but children aren't able to invest in this not very novel scam.
@simon_lucy @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
The NFT serves as collateral and not to fund the houses themselves. If you'd use fiat currencies you couldn't get the community on board. Crypto is borderless and not tied to a nation and more accessible in that sense. I can use the fiat currency of my home country and buy ADA and swap it into EMP (which isn't available on many CEXs, yes). I'd see great use of a stablecoin because, as you've pointed out, EMP is a volatile asset.
@errorbody @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
What community?
Why would a fund not work rather than some valueless set of graphics. If it takes around $40k to build a couple of houses just start a fund for that.
@errorbody @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
I know it gets forgotten by those hyping unsafe tokens but any fund raising platform will take multiple currencies there's no need to get into conversion costs.
The $ and € are global currencies.
@errorbody @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
Umm, that's the US banking system, most everywhere in the world is zero hassle other than ensuring it's the right set of account references.
But then most donations (and these really are donations) use intermediaries Debit cards, credit cards, PayPal, Stripe or one of 50 or more payment processors.
@errorbody @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
There is zero necessity for crypto currency unless you're money laundering, fleecing the optimistic fool, dazzled by poor technology or perpetuating the myth that sentiment adds value.
@simon_lucy @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
We disagree here and that's fine. We'll see how things play out.
@simon_lucy @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
Like I said, that's just an experience I had. The thing with crypto is that it is designed to not (necessarily) need an intermediary. You mentioned all those payment providers, in the fiat world they're handy but who needs them really if you just can send funds directly to the person, company, government, etc.? I for example don't use PayPal, I don't like the company, the people it made rich and don't want them to know about my purchases.
@simon_lucy @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
Oh and about MasterCard and Visa, I don't like them either. https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/mastercard-visa-reach-30-bln-settlement-over-credit-card-fees-2024-03-26
You probably know about this, right? I don't wanna enable such companies.
This kind of convenience, meaning doing it the way we've done it for decades, helps them in the end. Not consumers, merchants or people who want to donate, etc.
@errorbody @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
That again is a US problem. One of the reasons there's so much cash usage is the nickel and diming that transactions attract as well as the still primitive trading and banking systems in the US.
@errorbody @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
I can transfer directly to another account it's trivially easy and the currency is irrelevant.
Currency is a separate trade and that's all that cryptocurrencies are along with a bet that they'll rise in value purely on market behaviour along with an assumption that they won't crash.
At the same time there is certainty that they will crash, usually for the benefit of a very few.
@simon_lucy @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
Cryptocurrencies are more than just currencies. That they are used as an investment product and hold for price gains: true - but only one aspect of their existence. Many coins and tokens are utility coins/tokens. For governance related actions. They literally express that you have a stake in something. That could be a DAO, an incubator program, a DApp, the entire blockchain.
@errorbody @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
Those are just notional uses, we've been using keys and certificates for a very long time and the Blockchain is just a linked list which is as basic a data structure as you can get.
A Blockchain doesn't solve a single new problem.
@simon_lucy @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
Maybe it should focus on solving existing problems first then.
- transparency of supply chains (haven't undertaken a deep dive into this topic myself yet. Some nation states implement blockchain for this already)
- electronic voting: Estonia does it since 2005 (last year over half of the people eligible to vote chose i-voting as it is called in Estonia. I looking forward to the day I can vote at home using my phone or laptop.
@errorbody @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
Never ever use electronic voting for anything more important than a reality show.
You'd imagine that provenance would be a target however given the granularity of change that provenance has to manage and as components are combined or are dependencies in the finished deliverable the woeful performance of a Blockchain disqualifies it as a solution.
You're better off with a hash key tree like Git.
@simon_lucy @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
The system in Estonia works. That's all I can say. It's been battle tested. There will of course be people and entire enemy states who and which will try to interfere but nothing of this kind was successful. And you know as good as me that you can have a good old election or "election" which is easily manipulated.
It happens all the time. What exactly in regards to the performance of blockchains is woeful in your mind?
@errorbody @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
A Blockchain is just a linked list. In a crypto Blockchain with either proof of work or proof of stake creation, updating, splitting of blocks is horrendously expensive in time and energy.
Because a Blockchain is presumed to be distributed, writes have to traverse a P2P network, P2P is not a deterministic network, new nodes can appear and disappear so there are few writers to many readers.
@simon_lucy @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
Just seeing this now. I don't know what the energy consumption of a server is people run from their homes.
About the nodes and running them: node operators get rewards for validating blocks. This incentives them to stay online. It's costly to become a validator on some chains, like Ethereum, on others that's less the case. Hard part is getting delegation. #Cardano has thousands of active stakepools and one of the most decentralized networks.
@errorbody @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
If there are a large number of writers then consensus takes longer and is more expensive and the larger the P2P network the more likely it is that nodes drop off and rejoin.
It's a technology of waste and not worth wasting time on.
@simon_lucy @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
Here's how the consensus mechanism works on #Cardano
@errorbody @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
"Ouroboros is a proof-of-stake protocol. It distributes network control across stake pools: node operators with the intrastructure required to ensure a consistent and reliable connection to the network."
There's really no such thing as a consistent and reliable connection of one node, so an operator requires multiple nodes.
Look at Raft, Paxos or even Zookeeper. Or any cluster architecture, like CouchDB. It isn't novel.
@errorbody @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
Having helped architect voting systems I know how easily they can be subverted.
@simon_lucy @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
Here's how the process works in Estonia should you be interested.
https://www.valimised.ee/en/internet-voting/more-about-i-voting/introduction-i-voting
Electronic voting (i-voting) allows votes to be cast via the Internet. A computer with an Internet connection and an ID-card or mobile ID with valid certificates are needed for that. In elections, i-voting is open for the whole duration of the advance voting period.
@leitzke @simon_lucy @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
The digital infrastructure of Estonia, marketed/labeled as e-Estonia, is very intertwined. If you search for i-voting there's nothing which leads you directly to the term "blockchain", at least I haven't seen it. All I know is that e-identity, X-Road (interoperability services) and the KSI blockchain (data integrity solution) work hand in hand.
Further info:
https://e-estonia.com/solutions/
Interesting journal article:
https://academic.oup.com/policyandsociety/article/41/3/386/6566828?login=false
@errorbody @simon_lucy @Naich @AutisticMumTo3 @fribbledom
So… all the “e-identity”, “e-voting” solutions and so on predate KSI’s Blockchain (which was released in 2020) and have no dependency on it.
From the article you linked: “In fact, although according to different sources decentralized technologies in Estonia were deployed for security and administrative reasons in the first place, the narrative around blockchain and DLTs seem to have been later adopted to ride the wave of the ‘hype’.”
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