Chris HartjesSpeakers at a language-specific conference shitting on other language communities is a sign that their own community is not welcoming and inclusive. I was looking at learning Rust to expand my skill set only to see that recent speakers are punching down at other languages. Doesn’t give confidence that as I explore the language my requests for help would be taken seriously because I use a “wrong” language.
Random Geek in limbo@grmpyprogrammer it's put me off from a few communities over the years. "Oh this looks like a cool and useful technology. But I'd risk working with that person. Moving on."
Joe T@grmpyprogrammer Is your experience anything like mine, in that it's hard to find a language community that doesn't shit on PHP at least a little bit?
Ross Wintle@cautionbug @grmpyprogrammer This happens *within* the PHP community too. Try being an open-minded WordPress dev looking to learn a new CMS or framework. You think you’d be welcomed with open arms and helped. But you often arrive to see a tool you love being derided.
Max Almonte@grmpyprogrammer what I don't understand is how those comments were even relevant to the people present. Rust and PHP are designed with different goals (and usages) in mind. I would understand those comments if they were coming from people pushing another language for web development, but from the Rust community... It honestly feels like they just wanted to shit on PHP for no reason.
Ben Ramsey@maxalmonte14 @grmpyprogrammer This happened at a JavaScript conference I attended. The speaker made a joke at the expense of PHP, so I raised my hand and tried to ask as mildly and meekly as possible, “What’s wrong with PHP?”
That really caught him off guard, so he stumbled around a bit and said something about the PHP manual being horrible in the past “but it’s gotten a lot better.”
I didn’t say anything more.
@ramsey @grmpyprogrammer goes to show how little these people really know about the language and its community.
@maxalmonte14 @grmpyprogrammer It’s just used as a cheap shot to get a laugh, nothing more. They could make any other joke about anything else, and it would probably serve the same purpose.
nicksloan@ramsey @maxalmonte14 @grmpyprogrammer For any set of things that people have opinions about, there will arise a consensus about which one is the one to make fun of. Cleveland is a good example. This even applies to Beatles. I think a lot of times the derision is very loosely held. The trouble for PHP is that people may make decisions about it based on the ridicule and not any first hand experience.
Larry Garfield@grmpyprogrammer Is the actual dig from the talk available online somewhere?
erik@grmpyprogrammer every language has pros and cons. I've worked with so many different stacks over the years. The overwhelming majority of the issues I've had were more with the practices and procedures in place at the company using those stacks, rather than the tech itself. To state otherwise shows either a lack of knowledge/experience, or an unwillingness to accept reality. Good code and software development practice is universal
🇺🇦 Anna Filina@grmpyprogrammer I had an unpleasant experience at PyCon. A keynote speaker, who was also a sponsor, just went ahead and shit all over PHP. I shared my concerns with the organizers, but didn't really feel heard. I never went to a PyCon conference again. Many individual devs are nice, but the community itself made a pretty bad impression.
@grmpyprogrammer To be clear, this wasn't the sole reason I disengaged from that community. I had further pain points when trying to submit again, which had to do with the selection process and the speakers having to pay everything, including their conference ticket.
Su-Shee@grmpyprogrammer as a former perl developer I wholeheartly agree and I got my share of ridicule from the ruby and python community in particular even as late as in this decade (!) still. I also really don't like the looking-down-on-mysql the postgres community is partially still prone to doing.