Mastodawn

Giles Goat Mar 29, 2024

@eniko All true, and if you stop paying those $100 per year ( well iOS at least/too ) you get ALL your SW REMOVED from the Apple/iOS store. Plus "any time they do an OS update" is practically GUARANTEE that your SW for whatever stupid reason will BREAK and you'll have to re-compile/re-distribute it all again. Once we made ONE OSX SW we manage to be "on top 10 position" on the OSX store, we thought "we may get something here" .. did we ? NO ! "Like nothing happened", sales for games, abysmal.

Oblomov Mar 29, 2024

@gilesgoat @eniko JFC how are they still in business

Kevin Granade has moved Mar 29, 2024

@oblomov @[email protected] @eniko because for a non-indie game this is trivial compared to the rest of their infrastructure. It doesn't lose them enough users to matter.

OTOH it feels to me like it's getting worse and if it keeps going this way enough devs will start being Mac hostile to make an impact.

Farbs Mar 29, 2024

@gilesgoat Ugh, yes, then they update the SDK requiring a newer XCode requiring a newer OS that whoops doesn't run on your machine so it's time to drop a few thousand dollars on that.

Giles Goat Mar 29, 2024

@Farbs AH yes I FORGOT that "every now and then" and the "NEW OS update" means you HAVE TO BUY A NEW MAC !!

Giles Goat Mar 29, 2024

@eniko Also I DARE to say that "Apple STARTED the CURSE of free-to-play, in-app-purchases, consumables, pay-to-win and all that came after (*)" CAUSE THEIR iOS store idea of "all at 99p" then "all for FREE" ! .. They "completely ruined" the perception of "value" in "videogames" IMHO. And then everyone else ( or many ) followed with this idea of "games should be thrown out in bulk for free and make money from then via alternative means", those (*) means 😡

0x0961h Mar 29, 2024

@eniko oof

Josh Jersild Mar 29, 2024

@eniko I am doing some mac shit for work right now and it is absolutely fucking atrocious what you have to do to build shit for its platform

I hate it

Andy Buckley Mar 29, 2024

@eniko Even similar issues in academic physics software: zero Mac use in production runs, but disproportionate build difficulty (even worse, you have to work _around_ Xcode if you need Fortran), plus the OS X users are the ones least likely to debug their own issues (and to have installed a tottering heap of Brew and Conda conflicts)

@eniko not even steam bothers to make their software usable on mac. its terrible on there, i have a steam deck for a reason

@eniko i wish devs could just provision their game with a steam provided key. dont you have to pay money to steam for selling your game? it should be a courtesy

@j0 @eniko steam bypasses gatekeeper for every game you download through it

@ipg @eniko oh really? that’s pretty cool

@j0 @eniko yeah. not that it matters because valve require you to sign and notarise your own games for them to accept it

this rule, notably, does not apply to valve themeslves, who are still shipping unsigned 32-bit binaries for macos in 2024 (despite steam not running on 32-bit macs since 2015)

@ipg @eniko god damn it lmao

@j0 yeah valve's handling of macos sucks, apple is annoying about it but valve definitely don't help anything, and being the largest player in the pc gaming duopoly (when the second largest player does literally nothing better than them) means they dont actually have to improve shit
i hate every time i have to open steam on macos, it makes the fans spin up because its chromium running under an emulation layer

(also fwiw that video linked in OP says you have to build the whole thing in xcode which isn't necessarily true, you have to provision keys for each application in xcode but otherwise you are free to use regular command line build tools as you would on linux, and codesign from the command line or in a CI pipeline. but saying that makes apple sound less unreasonable so they dont say that)

@j0 also Technically you don't need the $100 per year developer license fee but it helps you out if you get one especially if you're distributing outside of a game launcher that blesses applications to ignore gatekeeper, since without it your users have to right click -> open, the first time they run the app file, rather than just double clicking the app

@ipg i hate that right click open shit so much

@ipg oh my god it is just chromium in an emulation layer. god. my main complaint about the app is that it just doesnt obey the macos window manager and completely ignores stage manager. doesnt work with cmd backtick or whatever either

@j0 did you know if you press the steam icon in the dock it will just cancel whatever you were doing and bring you to the store front page. you have to be very careful tabbing back in

@ipg da hell

dfug Mar 29, 2024

@eniko If they keep up their game porting toolkit shenanigans we might arrive at a future where you can just say fuck it, compile for win32 and have it run on all three platforms

truly the strongest ABI for gamedev

Khalid ⚡Mar 29, 2024

@eniko you had me at XCode

Gorgeous na Shock!Mar 29, 2024

@eniko It blows my mind when I see a game offered on Windows and Mac but not Linux. Why?! Mac has a couple more users but the difficulty and expense is so much higher!

I don't mind offering Mac support, personally, but your Mac has to support CarbonLib.

Usagi Mar 29, 2024

@indigoparadox @eniko They have the users that bought the Apple hardware, it's where the money is.