"You get more conservative when you get older" only really worked for the generations that got RICHER as they got older.
The real truth was always just "You get more selfish the more money you have".

@cmconseils you know I thought that was maybe true but when I was younger I took advantage of social services and now that I'm older and doing better financially I'm happy to pay back into those systems for others.

I think it's just an excuse for becoming bitter with age and I refuse.

@samthurston Exactly the same with me. The govt invested in me during some hard years when I was younger. Since those days I've paid a lot of taxes and hope I'm investing in other Americans' futures. @cmconseils
@samthurston @cmconseils
Same here! Almost 60 now and not one step more conservative than in my youth. Yes, my banc account looks way better now but I can see the problems the younger generations have and are going to have, very clearly. A shame for my generation and my parent's.
@cmconseils Makes sense. I've sproinged off the left edge of the map as time has passed...
@cmconseils I was more conversative in my late teens and early 20's. Then I grew up.

@cmconseils

Or

The more selfish you are, the more money you have

@cmconseils Even originally, also, a lot of more radical people, or more marginalized people, die younger. Without access to healthcare or emergency support systems, they are shoved through the "cracks in society" and lost, if not outright murdered by the state (and watching that happen also deradicalized many people, which it was intended to as the act of sanction terrorism it always is) tipping the balance of those remaining towards conservatives without anyone having ever changed their minds.
@cmconseils or you get more selfish as you get more scared.

@lazyscot @cmconseils yes!

I think for some people: getting older brings frailty and makes you less likely to meet new people and this makes you scared - scared of change and things being done differently, scared of "others" who don't share your culture/beliefs/worldview. Then add in your only reference to this being salacious headlines and algorithms designed by psychologists to press your buttons - all to get you to buy and keep buying.

Everyone is selfish to differing degrees. When people get scared that nobody is going to look after them it makes sense that some might feel they have to look after number 1.

But there's some really good other points in this thread too. Thanks for sharing!

@cmconseils Rather than directly an effect of wealth, this might be more "People grow more Conservative the more they're told they're better than others".

The same happens when racism or any other form of "some people are better than others" hierarchy gets established.

Conservatism is just amygdala-driven "fear of loss is my overriding concern".

@gooba42 @cmconseils yeah. And for some people that starts at a very early age.

@cmconseils
poor people die younger

when you see social spending cuts imposed by 60- or 80- year-old politicians, that is a generation of the ruling class *killing their peers* below them on the social ladder

A l’âge de la retraite, 25% des plus pauvres sont déjà morts

Selon les données de l'Insee, à l'âge de 62 ans, seuls 75% des 5% les plus pauvres ont survécu, contre 95% des plus riches.

Libération
@cmconseils ...and to get more money you have to get more selfish (as a sweeping generality).

@cmconseils @cstross

The second part may be true but the first part is actually wrong. True (and interesting) fact.

https://brilliant.org/lesson/the-overton-paradox/

The Overton Paradox | Brilliant

@tarheel

Woah that's fascinating. I have never come across this before. I love how they chose to present this information. Thank you for sharing!

@cmconseils That may be partially true, but I find the concept of the Overton Paradox absolutely fascinating (and enlightening). I hope it holds true at least for another few generations!
https://brilliant.org/lesson/the-overton-paradox/
The Overton Paradox | Brilliant

@cmconseils I've seen it called into question whether it was ever true at all, or whether the whole idea is based on seeing old conservatives and young liberals and misinterpreting it as an age effect when it's really a cohort effect. If each generation is less conservative than the last, the effect will be that old people are more conservative than young people, even if no individual becomes more conservative over time.
@CarlMuckenhoupt @cmconseils can’t remember the URL of the piece I read, but apparently we all get *less* conservative as we age, but nowhere near as fast as society does.
@pdcawley @CarlMuckenhoupt @cmconseils Ahhh, that’s interesting and feels true to me. I have read that the age/conservative relationship does not hold.

@cmconseils I'm not sure that's true. I can see 50 coming up, and while I'm *severely* better off than the small rural town dysfunctional family I came from, my father would probably burn me as a heathen unmanly socialist at the next Schützenfest.

Shit's fucked in the world.

@cmconseils
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
@cmconseils Having kids will also trigger risk aversion. See "The Authoritarians"
@cmconseils @cstross the motherfucking truth, if you are a fucking husk devoid of empathy which appears to be 99% of humans. And the reason that I basically welcome the nuclear fire. We are beyond redemption, I feel.
@cmconseils I've been pondering how people answer, "how much is $100 worth". The answer of course changes if it's _their_ $100, yours, or belongs to a Trillionaire.
You get more cruel the more you accumulate obligations and debt.
@cmconseils
There was an excellent thread by @mekkaokereke that I am not able to search for the quote post, but have to gall to summarize.
The gist is that actuarial data shows that older people being more conservative is exclusively a function of oppressed people dying earlier than beneficiaries of supremacy.
mekka okereke :verified: (@[email protected])

Attached: 2 images I'm going to keep sharing this info until it sinks in. Young voters do not get significantly more or less politically activated. Voter suppression gets more or less effective. Ballot drop boxes and mail-in voting, prevents suppression. People do not become more conservative as they get older. There is not an increasing difference between white GOP and Dem voters as they get older. Black people don't live long, and many brown voters aren't born yet.

Hachyderm.io
@cmconseils I'm more 'conservative', in that I want to conserve a livable biosphere, a public service, labour rights and so on.

@cmconseils The older people become the more they conserve the believes and concepts they were exposed to in their youth by their culture and home. Look's like that's a biological imposition. Same goes for doubling down on behavior, tactic's that "worked out".

Depending on the societies and the goal's they propose this "worked out" may vary.

@cmconseils
There is just so much truth in this.
@cmconseils I'm not sure the level of selfishness changes at all. Conservatism is about maintaining status quo, so you might have been selfish from birth (and most of us are, I believe), but you didn't have reasons to be conservative until you acquire enough wealth and your life starts feeling comfortable.
@cmconseils Some of it is also that some people didn't get more conservative, it's just the world around them got more progressive.

@cmconseils There is a Spanish saying: "If you are young and are not liberal, you don't have a heart, if you are old and you are not conservative, you don't have a brain"

I find it a cheap excuse from people who become richer and forget their principles

@cmconseils I'd never considered it this way, it makes so much sense !
@cmconseils This did not even happen in older generations. They SEEMED to get more conservative, because they grew up in a more conservative society and retained some of those beliefs. But most people in fact got more liberal over time. (Source: https://www.allendowney.com/blog/2021/05/03/simpsons-paradox-and-age-effects/)
@cmconseils ...And the more "things" you own. I heard that people owning their house became suddenly significantly more conservative. Which gives off that one question : should we own our own houses. :>

@cmconseils when I was a skint student I remember not having sympathy for striking Underground workers because "they get tons of money already!" When I finally got on a decent wage, I realised that money doesn't go as far as I once thought.

So I personally got more left-wing as I gained more money. 🤷‍♀️

@cmconseils But even that's not true, since I didn't. I don't think I'm an outlier here, at least for my generation. (Someone once suggested that people didn't get more conservative, they just stopped in place, and society got more liberal. I *want* to believe that one, since it gives me hope about society.)

@cmconseils I feel like the older I get, the less I am capable of getting. I've always been the kind of person who relied heavily on their cognitive and physical ability to generate "wealth." My family depends on my ability to keep doing this so that my daughter can maybe get an education. Maybe, one day, I could retire (though that seems very unlikely).

I guess this is selfish after all but at a certain point spending less is all I can control.

@cmconseils I think that's part of it, but I think people also overstate the shift in (white) Boomers from liberal to conservative.

It's not so much that the average white boomer was more liberal when they were younger as that they liked sex and drugs and didn't want to get drafted.

@cmconseils
Partly. Another part is that I, at least, see fragility and webs of dependence that my 30-year-old self didn't understand.
And another part is that I see how easy it is to get something you didn't wish for. The 1979 Iranian revolution started as a liberal-minded, outward-looking movement wanting less authoritarian government.
@cmconseils
I won't argue with the more money = more selfish but but just a few months ago someone posted the results of a study here that showed that mostly people get more liberal as they get older but they still just look more conservative than the current generation.
One of the graphs followed decade cohorts and everyone go more liberal except one cohort that was born in the 1980s that got rapidly more conservative when they became adults.
@cmconseils this also only plays out at the polls bc poor people don't live as long.
@cmconseils If you read Churchill's writings, you will find he got more liberal as he got older.
I don't know who thought up the phrase. But, I think it is "Selfish people get more conservative as they get older."
@cmconseils you're so young and already full of prejudice.
@cmconseils Also "you get more conservative the more you're a white person surrounded by a white age cohort because racism and other bigotry has led to the disproportionately early preventable deaths of your non-white peers before they got older."

@cmconseils

Just one of those posts which stirs the juices! (and I am sorry if anyone has been rude.)

For me, as an older person, it is not just that I am financially more-stable than I was. I am also more risk averse. Which I hate in myself, so I push myself to take more risks…

…but I am knowledgeable enough to know, in my core, my 'financial stability' is a delusion, mostly outside my control. I trust the good will of younger generations more than my own; I know my gen too well.

@cmconseils It's also important to look at who it is that lives to be older, versus who it is that dies young due to job injuries, poor diet, living conditions, access to healthcare, etc. The belief that "you get more conservative when you get older" is influenced by survivor bias.