Ryan SingelMar 19, 2024

I still think the most under-reported, most holy shit tech story of the last 5+ years is how good e-bikes have gotten and how much more affordable a decent e-bike has become.

E-cars and trucks are a nice change but mostly meh. E-bikes, tho? They are magic.

They deserve subsidies and way more press attention.

Show threadRyan SingelMar 19, 2024

E-bikes outsell electric cars and trucks, and are the best-selling Electric Vehicles.

Meanwhile most journalists focus on the traditional automotive market and use the term EV to refer only to e-cars/trucks.

Show threadLisPiMar 20, 2024
@ryansingel For a certain definition of affordable anyway.

They're certainly not a casual purchase even now compared to a used non-electric bike.

Of course here the roads (and the drivers) are sufficiently screwed up I wouldn't feel /remotely/ safe using a bike on them. Rather, anything smaller than a bus feels unsafe.
Show threadAGTMADCAT 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇵🇸Mar 20, 2024
@lispi314 @ryansingel They've gotten really cheap - you can get a basic one for a couple hundred bucks, new. When the conversation is about the cost of personal transportation, that's insanely cheap. Only the indigent are unable to afford that, and those are people we're supposed to be supporting anyway. (That we're not is a whole other conversation)
Show threadLisPiMar 20, 2024
@AGTMADCAT @ryansingel Don't the indigent represent a significant part of the population (in those living paycheck to paycheck)?

(Of course cars are not any more affordable, so they just get squeezed until something gives.)
Show threadAGTMADCAT 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇵🇸Mar 20, 2024
@lispi314 @ryansingel Living paycheck to paycheck implies food and housing and other basic necessities, but little to nothing beyond that. Indigent means not even that - the homeless, starving, and so on.
Show threadLisPiMar 20, 2024
@AGTMADCAT @ryansingel I see.

I would say the expense remains a problem even to those who aren't indigent but merely impoverished. Many of them cannot have any credit, which makes said expense rather problematic (and financing with bad or no credit tends to involve aboslutely usurious rates).
Show threadAGTMADCAT 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇵🇸Mar 20, 2024
@lispi314 @ryansingel Well, how are they getting around at the moment? Couple hundred bucks a month in bus fares? I'm not saying that this is a solution that covers 100% of people, but literally no solution ever can be. In a healthy society there should be many layered and overlapping solutions to each problem, so that no one falls through the gap. But I'm confident that well over 95% of Americans could scrounge together enough to buy a $200 ebike, get one donated, or similar.
Show threadAlexander The 1stMar 20, 2024

@AGTMADCAT @lispi314 @ryansingel I think it's worth noting that the "Couple hundred bucks a month" is not a splurge purchase - if they're living paycheck to paycheck, they're probably getting fares separately.

And in B.C., TransLink fares as 2 1-zone fares a day (So, round-trip 1-zone) only comes out to $158.10 ($195.3 if only using cash or direct payment rather than compass card) a month.

And a monthly pass is only $104.90.

Show threadAlexander The 1stMar 20, 2024

@AGTMADCAT @lispi314 @ryansingel The calculations I did was based on 31-day months, and based on the fare tables here [ https://www.translink.ca/transit-fares/pricing-and-fare-zones ].

I'll also add that as my sister pointed out, transit fare is cheaper than having a car, but a car can be cheaper than paying for transit fare *and* having a car.

The same issue would apply to having an E-bike and then also still needing to use transit for some distances - that's more costly.

Show threadAGTMADCAT 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇵🇸
@AT1ST @lispi314 @ryansingel Well sure, but if getting the ebike drives the number of bus trips below ~20/mo, then there's still a net savings being realized. If it drives the number of trips below 10 then it pays for itself in what, 4 months? Even if it's very low quality it should last at least that long.
Mar 20, 2024 at 2:06pmWeb
Show threadAlexander The 1stMar 22, 2024

@AGTMADCAT @lispi314 @ryansingel Just to be clear, you can reuse bus fares as long as it's within 90 minutes of your bus fare.

But in this upcoming April, there are 22 days of Monday - Friday, where return trips would double up to 44, and that's not including weekends, if you plan to do *anything* else that goes beyond an E-Bike capability.

An E-Bike then is most useful if you're going somewhere with heavily limited transit capabilities...but not as much otherwise.

Show threadAGTMADCAT 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇵🇸Mar 22, 2024
@AT1ST @lispi314 @ryansingel I'm not sure what you mean by that last part - ebikes work great in most of the same roles as transit, or as a complement to it. If you're going somewhere in your city that's, say, 3-5 miles from your house, then either a bus or an ebike is likely a great option. A car is a crap option because parking it sucks (anywhere civilized, of course), and it's too far for walking to really make sense unless you're stranded.
Show threadAlexander The 1stMar 22, 2024

@AGTMADCAT @lispi314 @ryansingel So this explanation is sort of cheating, since it's actually a 3-zone distance, but hopefully gets the scale of the issue of "Just get an E-Bike and don't you can skip transit".

If you need to do that level of transit in a day (And given rent costs, this could be a requirement to work in Vancouver and live in Surrey), the sheer time taken is...immense.

You're going to need transit for this route most of the time.

Show threadAlexander The 1stMar 22, 2024
@AGTMADCAT @lispi314 @ryansingel You *can* bike that (And I know someone who bikes from closer to one end to farther out where transit is less...well supported.), but if you have your E-Bike, it's still way more practical to bring your E-Bike *onto* Transit for most of that stretch, and then... you're paying for both types of transit.
Show threadAGTMADCAT 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇵🇸Mar 22, 2024

@AT1ST @lispi314 @ryansingel Come on now, switching to trains isn't fair, that's a really long way! =)

But yes, you and I both live in places with crippling housing shortages, so our cities are not the best examples to use for how things "should" work. But if you're looking at a 20mi/30km commute that's not exactly on a rail corridor then chances are you're going to get a car, and an ebike plus transit is going to be a massive savings in comparison.

Show threadAlexander The 1stMar 22, 2024
@AGTMADCAT @lispi314 @ryansingel It is admittedly sort of cheating, I'll admit, but I will point out that technically, the SkyTrain uses the exact same pricing model as the buses.
(And I generally consider it different than a train itself - technically, there is a bus route along that same route, though as I understand, it only runs late at night. Also, only part of a route one might take.)
That said,an E-Bike plus transit is still more expensive than just relying on good public transit alone.
Show threadAlexander The 1stMar 22, 2024
@AGTMADCAT @lispi314 @ryansingel Actually to prove that, I checked - going the opposite direction and set for "Last Available Time", it's two buses, and still only 1 hour and 27 minutes. While that is about twice as long as the 40 minute trek, it's still an hour shorter than the E-Bike route.)
Show threadAGTMADCAT 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇵🇸Mar 24, 2024
@AT1ST @lispi314 @ryansingel If you're traveling right along a major corridor then absolutely, that makes sense. But honestly I'm not sure what you're arguing for at this point - that $200 ebikes are bad? Transit is great but most people don't live in areas with adequate last mile connectivity, so ebikes fill that gap, and once you have an ebike it will also take over many of the short range trips from transit. I have the example of 3-5 miles quite intentionally, because that's too far to walk but waiting for and paying for transit isn't a great option either, while a cheap ebike will handle that perfectly.