Ryan SingelMar 19, 2024

I still think the most under-reported, most holy shit tech story of the last 5+ years is how good e-bikes have gotten and how much more affordable a decent e-bike has become.

E-cars and trucks are a nice change but mostly meh. E-bikes, tho? They are magic.

They deserve subsidies and way more press attention.

Show threadRyan SingelMar 19, 2024

E-bikes outsell electric cars and trucks, and are the best-selling Electric Vehicles.

Meanwhile most journalists focus on the traditional automotive market and use the term EV to refer only to e-cars/trucks.

Show threadLisPiMar 20, 2024
@ryansingel For a certain definition of affordable anyway.

They're certainly not a casual purchase even now compared to a used non-electric bike.

Of course here the roads (and the drivers) are sufficiently screwed up I wouldn't feel /remotely/ safe using a bike on them. Rather, anything smaller than a bus feels unsafe.
Show threadAGTMADCAT 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇵🇸Mar 20, 2024
@lispi314 @ryansingel They've gotten really cheap - you can get a basic one for a couple hundred bucks, new. When the conversation is about the cost of personal transportation, that's insanely cheap. Only the indigent are unable to afford that, and those are people we're supposed to be supporting anyway. (That we're not is a whole other conversation)
Show threadLisPiMar 20, 2024
@AGTMADCAT @ryansingel Don't the indigent represent a significant part of the population (in those living paycheck to paycheck)?

(Of course cars are not any more affordable, so they just get squeezed until something gives.)
Show threadAGTMADCAT 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇦🇹🇼🇵🇸Mar 20, 2024
@lispi314 @ryansingel Living paycheck to paycheck implies food and housing and other basic necessities, but little to nothing beyond that. Indigent means not even that - the homeless, starving, and so on.
Show threadLisPiMar 20, 2024
@AGTMADCAT @ryansingel I see.

I would say the expense remains a problem even to those who aren't indigent but merely impoverished. Many of them cannot have any credit, which makes said expense rather problematic (and financing with bad or no credit tends to involve aboslutely usurious rates).
Show threadDavid S (inactive)Mar 20, 2024
@lispi314 @AGTMADCAT @ryansingel ebikes don't stop regular bikes existing?
Show threadLisPiMar 20, 2024
@Pionir @ryansingel @AGTMADCAT Indeed they don't, but the benefit which ebikes would have is that it permits longer commutes than would be reasonable by bike otherwise... and it also permits those with physical limitations that would preclude the use of a bike for such commutes to actually do it anyway.

So while one can buy a mundane bike for cheaper it comes with more limitations. Which is unfortunate as it leaves situations where the added expense precludes a bike. (And yet the investment of an electrical bike would be cheaper than using the bus for several months, but then we run into Sam Vimes' Boots theory.)
Show threadDavid S (inactive)Mar 20, 2024

@lispi314 @AGTMADCAT @ryansingel how is the expense for a new thing a problem when the cheaper things still exist and remain an option? It's like saying when helicopters were invented, the price was a problem because ordinary people couldn't afford to buy one to replace their bike.

The main cost benefit of an e-bike is it is cheaper to buy and run than a car, so those forced into cars for whatever reason, but are struggling to afford them, now have a cheaper alternative.

Show threadLisPi
@Pionir @ryansingel @AGTMADCAT > how is the expense for a new thing a problem when the cheaper things still exist and remain an option?

This assumes you already had the prior thing and had the opportunity to use it. I did specifically mention two cases where its use would've been impossible and the opportunity cost of improving one's situation might be prohibitive, such that all available choices are worse.

I'm quite glad that we didn't find some way to screw up our urban design enough to *need* helicopters or have much reasonable use for them.

> The main cost benefit of an e-bike is it is cheaper to buy and run than a car, so those forced into cars for whatever reason, but are struggling to afford them, now have a cheaper alternative.

Which already requires both monetary and physical ability to buy & use a car (considering how awful bus service is in much of USA, do you really think people are using it because they realistically have a choice?). There are several motor and neurological issues which prevent that (safely and/or legally) but not the use of a pedelec.
Mar 20, 2024 at 9:45amWeb
Show threadDavid S (inactive)Mar 20, 2024

@lispi314 @AGTMADCAT @ryansingel the two cases you mentioned would necessitate using something already, which still exists, so how does an e-bike being expensive change that?

I agree it's good we didn't design infrastructure around everyone having personal helicopter, despite how amazing it looked in Back to the Future 2.

Show threadMisuse CaseMar 20, 2024

@lispi314 @Pionir @ryansingel @AGTMADCAT Higher-end e-bikes generally cost around $2-3k from what I’m seeing. It’s hard to get even a used car for that much these days. And most e-bikes cost half that much, or less.

While this puts them out of reach for a lot of poor and low-wealth people they are still much more affordable than a car for a vast number of people.

1/2

Show threadMisuse CaseMar 20, 2024

@lispi314 @Pionir @ryansingel @AGTMADCAT If you factor in the cost of gas, maintenance, insurance, etc. for cars, they also cost a lot less on a month-to-month basis.

They’re not a 100% solution for sure. We need to build more public transportation for everyone. But they’re way more affordable on the whole than automobiles.

2/2