White Rural Trump Supporters Are a Threat to Democracy

https://lemmy.world/post/12637871

White Rural Trump Supporters Are a Threat to Democracy - Lemmy.World

In the popular imagination of many Americans, particularly those on the left side of the political spectrum, the typical MAGA supporter is a rural resident who hates Black and Brown people, loathes liberals, loves gods and guns, believes in myriad conspiracy theories, has little faith in democracy, and is willing to use violence to achieve their goals, as thousands did on Jan. 6. According to a new book, White Rural Rage: The Threat to American Democracy, these aren’t hurtful, elitist stereotypes by Acela Corridor denizens and bubble-dwelling liberals… they’re facts. The authors, Tom Schaller, a professor at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, and Paul Waldman, a former columnist at The Washington Post, persuasively argue that most of the negative stereotypes liberals hold about rural Americans are actually true.

I have these stereotypes, because I’ve met these people. I used to live among them. So many Confederate flags in northern Michigan

The electorial college is a threat to democracy.

But neither political party wants to hand that control over to voters.

We need a critical mass of progressive politicians in office before we can fix the system, which is why they’re everyone else’s biggest political enemy

The funny thing is the electoral college was designed to counter exactly this event. In the case an absolute tyrant is going to get voted in, the electoral college is supposed to be the last chance to challenge it. But with the way the GOP is going, ain’t no one gonna challenge anything.

As they say, the devil will come bearing a cross wrapped in the American flag.

That was the story, but the real reason was the existing tyrants didn’t want to be overthrown either.

You have to have a realistic view of what we started out with to understand why 99% of the people in politics don’t want to change it.

At the end of the day, America has never really been a democracy. And the people who can change that just don’t want to.

It’s just easiest to hold onto that power when we think change is just an election away. It’s a lot of elections away, we can’t just win one and go home. It’s a war not a battle.

The GOP has shown, and proven, they will use any and all means necessary, including violence, to gain power. This isn’t theoretical anymore.

I’m so tired of my family members and other people that identify as “centralist” saying that both sides are bad.

No…only one side has used violence to overthrow an election. And that side’s political leadership said it was “normal political discourse”.

If both sides are the same, then you should be upset that “both sides” are violent.

Well, both sides are bad. Your argument is Trump is far worse. Which as an American you should feel that way. Because Trump would be fucking horrible for America. But if you were Palestinian, you’d definitely prefer Trump as he might pull support from Israel.

Thus, the problem today isn’t that there is a good guy, it’s choosing which genocide you support. Do you support the genocide of Palestinians or Ukrainians. Either way, you get to vote for genocide. Clearly the US is a shining example of democracy.

what universe would trump help anyone but himself? lmfaooo

I would like to know what DC Elseworlds dimension you’re talking about when you say Trump and the GOP would be an improvement or preferable to the Palestinians. There’s literally no evidence of that and decades of evidence, statements, and policies to the contrary.

Biden is trying to play politics, sidestep dealing with a genocide, and avoid trying to change the US stance with Israel. It’s a shit position he needs to change. He’s also receiving a ton of push back from within his own party and base.

Trump fully supports the genocide, the entire party he represents supports it, and would be glad to have Palestine wiped from the map. How anyone can say that Trump could be perceived as an improvement in any way is beyond me.

He’s just stirring. Everyone knows Trump doesn’t give a damn about the Palestanis. And that bullshit about him being on the take from Russia. These are all neocon talking points. Maybe he’s saying Trump would be pro Pal to chip away at him with the pro Israel nutters who are practically then lost powerful DC lobby.
Half the GOP wants to turn Gaza to glass. You can’t seriously think Trump would be better for Palestinians.
Since when did anyone day that? Stop shutting down any criticism of Biden. We have the right to be angry

if you were Palestinian, you’d definitely prefer Trump

From OP

nytimes.com/…/israel-republican-candidates-debate…

GOP on Gaza. Glass may be a slight exaggeration, but they are 100% behind Israel.

There are valid criticisms of Biden. But trying to claim the GOP would be better for Palestine is horrendously naive at best.

Republican Candidates Rushed to Line Up Behind Israel

The five candidates at the third debate rejected calls for Israel to rein in its retaliation in Gaza after Hamas’s Oct. 7 attack.

The New York Times

But if you were Palestinian, you’d definitely prefer Trump as he might pull support from Israel.

That’s in the comment they were replying to.

Firstly who cares who a Palestinian thinks about an American presidential election? Next Why on earth would you imagine that Trump would withdraw “support” from Israel. Our support is mostly selling them arms. He supports Israel. He supports their actions.
You’re as nuts as the poor country hocms being deride here.
Right?? Seems like gerrymandering is the bigger threat to democracy here.
“mass of progressive politicians” so you want every single person in America to think, act, feel, and vote the same? That doesn’t happen anywhere in the world…well, except communist countries of course.

That’s not what they said. Progressive is just basically rational. Progressives think differently about things all the time. It isn’t really a nailed-down ideology of any sort.

Whereas conservatives are notable for not thinking much about anything at any time. Besides their fears. Having no discernible ideology themselves other than they want what they want. And they need someone to hate and scapegoat.

An liberals are? Why do these articles always attack one side? I live in California, I’m seeing first hand what these extreme liberal views are doing. There’s people literally fighting for the right to allow the homeless to use drugs, shoot up heroin, and shit and piss wherever they want… it’s ridiculous. And don’t get me started on the petty crime that’s being ignored…because apparently, according to liberals, we need to completely revamp our criminal and judicial system because people who steal shit shouldn’t be going to prison… it’s fucking ridiculous.

More so than conservatives? Absolutely. Still not great. Also remember that progressives!=liberals. Some liberals are mildly progressive sure. Not enough of them or progressive enough.

The reason articles tend to attack a specific side pretty regularly. Is because they’re abjectly horrible and significantly worse than the next worst group around. Which happens to be liberals. Who are also very shit.

Nah, Saint Ronnie shuttering mental hospitals national wide. Pushing those people out on to the streets untreated. Is literally what caused all of that. But that’s blasphemy to say inn’it? You expect the state or police to have the time or funds to police such things. While closing the only, already inadequate system focused on taking care of those people. While voting at every turn to starve state and federal government of funds and resources to actually handle such situations. Irrationally frothing at the mouth about how your parties actions are all the fault of those evil liburuls!

Prison should only be a solution for those that pose an actual threat to society. Petty theft and drug use ain’t it. It’s pretty inhuman and grotesque the way you treat it as some garbage dump to permanently dispose of people you don’t like. Especially irrational when your realize that they’ll get out eventually. But that not only is recidivism far too high because prison doesn’t actually address any actual problems. It actually trains them to be better criminals.

This is exactly what I was talking about. You’re behaving irrational and vindictive. Blaming everyone but yourself for the problems you create and seek to exacerbate as a “conservative”. You complain about people complaining about the failures of the system, even as you champion the failed system. Putting it’s failures on the group your cult told you to hate. It’s 100% bananas. And you refuse to see it.

I’ll rag on liberals all day long. I barely have even faint praise to give them sparingly. But my god, conservatives somehow make them seem reasonable.

The electorial college is a threat to democracy.

This is correct and the actual point of the story.

I read the MSNBC article about this book last week and came away with “Wyoming’s 600,000 residents hold the same influence as California’s 39 million.”

The frightening truth about the key demographic buoying Trump - Lemmy

As Trump heads toward the nomination, rural voters are once again the foundation of his support. In a statement that had all the enthusiasm of a hostage video, Sen. John Thune of South Dakota, a “reasonable” Republican and occasional critic of Donald Trump, endorsed the former president this week. The two other “Johns” angling with Thune to be Republican leader when Sen. Mitch McConnell steps down at the end of the year — Sens. Cornyn of Texas and Barrasso of Wyoming — had already given Trump their support. Thune was late to bend the knee, but bend it he did. One more prominent Republican lining up behind the party’s inevitable presidential nominee is not shocking news. But the fact that Thune was so clearly reluctant to genuflect before Trump shows that someone like him — a rural-state Republican who’s very conservative, but not a MAGA bomb-thrower — is already an anachronism. In the kind of rural, overwhelmingly white state that Thune represents, Trumpism is the only game in town.

Get fucked. These people are products of poverty and the system that is designed to fail them.

This is just Democrat/Liberal PMC propaganda to help them feel better about their abandonment of the working class people of America for the benefit of their donor class.

Then they have a shocked Pikachu face when the people they left to stagnate and rot, turn out to be shitty.

And now that they are shitty people, we can just forget all about how we got here, and put all the blame on them.

I fully agree with you here. I have parents that are quite terrible people, but I can see what made them that way. They’ve watched their savings and pensions evaporate and their job opportunities dwindle. They feel strongly that the government doesn’t support their interests and share the feeling that most Americans have that the system isn’t working. They don’t feel represented.

Supporting Trump and other ridiculous conservative positions is their way of lashing out. It’s not a productive response, but I feel that this disenfranchisement is a major driver that creates these people. They are Americans too, and we should be asking what we can do to build unity and improve America for everyone.

Yes, they are still responsible for their actions. However, I think that it’s equally bad to ignore the factors that are producing these people in mass.

Supporting Trump and other ridiculous conservative positions is their way of lashing out.

Worshipping the personification of the system that fucked them over is the stupidest reaction possible.

I agree with you. It’s really stupid. But remember, half of people are below average. We’re not going to get away from having lots of stupid and gullible people in our country. We have to build a system where they aren’t so easily manipulated.
Unfortunately, the right wing also wants to gut education. Education could help people avoid some of the idiocy of the right wing.

True, but at the same time we have to remind ourselves that blindly following Trump hasn’t really hurt them yet. Not in any real, tangible sense, that is. As far as they can tell, the economy felt pretty good while he was in office, lots of the democratic norms he trashed had no impact on their lives, and most of the negative consequences the left has warned about never really materialized.

Covid “wasn’t his fault”, and all his crimes mostly amount to more political theater to them. Then when Biden took office two wars started, and illegal immigration skyrocketed. Even if none of that were his fault, he’s easy to blame for it.

Even supporters of the Third Reich followed blindly for a while because it put them on a cultural pedestal and stabilized their economy (kinda). Even when they watched trains carry millions of Jews to their deaths, they still shrugged and kept believing things were at least on the right track. It wasn’t until the fascist noose started closing around the necks of non-traditional enemies of the right, and until the hell of war showed up at their doorsteps, that they were shaken out of their slumber.

Trump simply hasn’t backfired on them yet, and until he does, they’ll continue to push the envelope into oblivion. I’m afraid he’ll have to burn the whole thing to the ground before his supporters will realize what a terrible mistake they made. And by then, it will be too late to recover.

Except that they’re not misbehaving children, they’re fully grown adults with agency to make their own decisions. An asshole with shitty parents is still an asshole. At some point you have to take responsibility for your own actions and quit blaming bad behavior on external factors. Those factors can only influence, you decide how to respond.

the people they left to stagnate and rot,

Part of the problem is that they continue to vote against their own interests, making it impossible for the left to help them, as they continue to vote Republican.

They have been voting against their own interests for decades.

Their grandparents filled in local swimming pools with concrete because they would rather do that then share with the colored folks.

nationalgeographic.com/…/public-swimming-pools-st…

Public swimming pools are still haunted by segregation's legacy

From white violence to the rise of exclusive swim clubs, people of color have long faced barriers to American swimming pools.

Cartoon: You made me become a Nazi!

Follow me on Twitter at @MattBors   and check this Kickstarter I launched to create a comics magazine.

Daily Kos

Then they have a shocked Pikachu face when the people they left to stagnate and rot, turn out to be the shitty products of their environment aka the neoliberal hellscape of modern day America.

I mean, the Democrats didn't really leave these people to rot, they've largely been prevented from doing anything to help them since rural areas vote so overwhelmingly Republican. What do you really expect the Democrats to have done when it's the other party these folks keep electing to represent them? They effectively say they want the policies that have left them so exposed and disadvantage, then they have a shocked Pikachu face that "those darn liberals haven't done anything to help us." Heck, even in broad terms, their voting habits have screwed all of us by preventing broadly popular things like universal health care or drug reform from going forward because of the disproportionate power the self-destructive votes they cast wield at the national level. My sympathy for them is extremely limited, and my patience at their insistence in making everyone else suffer for their god-awful politics has long since run out.

Private military contractor?
Professional Managerial Class aka white collar
What I can do for rural Americans is vote for Democrats that will raise my taxes and use them to fund these poor states. Then they pull shit like this. Their local GOP parties and the voters that agree with them are evil to do that to kids. Rince and repeat for expanding Medicaid, etc
Why 14 GOP-led states turned down federal money to feed low-income kids

Most Republican governors turned down federal money to provide grocery help for low-income families with school-age kids over the summer. While governors often complain about the programs of the other party's president, they don't normally reject that much funding. For some, it's an anti-welfare stance. Others wouldn't have time to get the programs running quickly enough or didn't know how the state would pay its share of the administrative costs. Some state leaders say they already have programs feeding kids during the summer, though those don't have wide reach.

AP News
The US election system that gives these people completely disproportionate political influence is a threat to democracy.

Headlines like this are problematic. I think we can all agree that Trump has done a lot of damage to democracy in the US, but are rural Trump supporters really more dangerous than urban Trump supporters? That claim is suspect, and the article provides no evidence to support it (it provides evidence that most Trump supporters are rural, which is a totally different claim.)

And saying that white rural Trump supporters are worse than non-white rural Trump supporters is an even more serious claim. It’s racially discriminatory, and seems totally baseless in this article.

The article has no evidence of these claims, and seems to indicate that the book doesn’t even make the claims of the headline.

(I’m not objecting to the claims that Trump supporters are mostly rural and mostly white. That is common knowledge.)

65% of rural America voted for Trump in 2020 nearly half 47% believe the election was stolen that’s half of all rurals not half of rural Republicans. Support for political violence is high with 1 in 3 Republicans nationwide and higher yet in rural America. It is easier for violence to take root where their is monocultural acceptance of the false premises used to justify it.

loves gods and guns

Ok, I was well aware of the gun fetishism, but I gotta say that the polytheism is very surprising!

Maybe they mean the sometimes not so subtle differences in worship by various sects of Christianity?
I think it’s funny that they call themselves monotheistic and then do these verbal gymnasics to keep that true (like calling other deities ‘saints’ or claiming that Jesus is god’s son but also 100% the same entity as god - oh yeah and that holy spirit thing too).
You mean you’re NOT your own dad, and also a disembodied spirit? I thought everyone was!
The most generous interpretation of Christianity is that it’s monotheish. The Doctrine of the Trinity is like crypto: you can’t understand it unless you believe in it.

Rural America is mostly a wasteland. It’s either where people of means deliberately choose to live away from society, or it’s people who are too ignorant, poor and/or drug-addled to have much choice. Neither group is going to be left-leaning… and that’s why when you look at electoral maps, you see all that red.

Pick a highway, any will do, travel along it and tell me what you see. I already know. One little failed town after another. They might have a dive bar or ancient gas station, but most commercial buildings will be long abandoned. If you need anything, you’ll have to find a decent city with a generic walmart, dollar general, mcdonalds, etc. Long gone are the mom-and-pop grocers, general stores, etc.

The irony is these are solid red Republican districts. Cities have major problems too, but they are full of action; plans, projects, hopes of a better future. There is no future for the average rural American.

They are frustrated and angry, as well they should be. Too bad they can’t see the forest through the trees.

One thing you can be sure of is that they all have a dollar store.

As a resident of one of these towns, another issue is that many people who are knowledgeable or capable are simply trapped. Several years ago in the area I live we use to have an economic development council that sponsored some proposals on alternatives to the anchor industry here (coal fired power generation), I shit you not, one of the remarks made by the workshops was a reference to a 2017 WSJ article that stated "rural is the new ‘inner city.’”

Rural areas have, and I’m quoting someone who presented at a workshop “lower economic status, lower education levels, higher wage gap, poorer health, higher rates of teen birth, and greater impacts from the opioid epidemic.”

The largest obstacle facing the trapped knowledgeable and educated people in rural areas is the obscene fucking cost of housing and the double-negative we’re facing on having little equity and cheap housing, where we want to move somewhere desirable and progressive having housing that’s beyond our lifetime earnings potential.

For the ignorant, this feeds into the anger cycle of wanting to just burn the whole thing down, and for the reds they look at every way they can fuck things up for the rest of us as a middle finger back at the country for the squalor they’re stuck with. They’d rather burn the forest down than try to fix anything, because they’re also lazy. Lazy in the sense of not wanting or accepting change. They’ll work hard at what they know, but learning new concepts is pushed against.

That doesn’t make it right, and I agree with you on all counts. Unity would get them a hell of a lot farther than the same tired old Reagan rhetoric they peddle. I’m just extremely fortunate in threading the needle through economic transition and getting to stay at my house without worrying about having to move, and I don’t like the city after having grown up in the Bay Area California. What you said still resonates with me as I can tell you understand it. We have no action plan and no hope because these towns are full of people who would just rather be angry than change.

Until rural Americans demand more from their elected leaders, i.e., Republicans, their plight will only get worse. In Schaller’s view, this doesn’t necessarily mean electing Democrats—but, rather, better Republicans.

-Michael Cohen, Author of OP Article

Because if everything is really the fault of politicians, where are all the bright, honest, intelligent Americans who are ready to step in and replace them? Where are these people hiding? The truth is, we don’t have people like that.

  • George Carlin
If they didn’t do solid fieldwork, I’d be skeptical. Material conditions partly explain why people are the way they are, can’t see liberals changing that.
I’m always amazed that a bunch of redneck, Southern, city haters decided that a rich, Manhattan developer was one of them
They simply deny everything you present to them. Facts do not matter. They are literally living in their own imagination and refuse to accept reality. It is time to reopen the mental institutions and throw them back in, along with the ACLU clowns who let them out to begin with.

It is time to reopen the mental institutions and throw them back in, along with the ACLU clowns who let them out to begin with.

My gods y’all say some legitimately evil shit sometimes.

Defending against violent fascists is evil?

I know what side you’re on now.

deleted by creator
I cant help but notice that your path of pacifism and “incremental change” has led to the rapid and accelerating rise of fascism…so until you can come up with a solution that has actually worked historically as well as mine has, you have no business trying to ivory tower your "superiority complex.
By the way, wtf does “less than a month old” mean? How is that relevant? Exactly what gate are you keeping, and by whose authority? How old are you? Were you born in the 90s or after? Do you have any concept of a world before cable news was able to spew nonstop propaganda and the airwaves weren’t saturated with constant radical fascist garbage? I can assure you that there is no possible way that I could be their equal in any way whatsoever. You would probably have nothing to compare to to know that.

you’re 100% correct. fuck the people downvoting you. they are probably idiot kids that haven’t watched this play out over the last 50 years. fuck em. they will have to live in the christofascist ecological nightmare world that is less than 20 years down the road. it will be justice for them being the fucking cowards they are.

let me know where i sign up to round up the conservatives and put them into camps and i’ll be there, because I CAN READ THE FUCKING WRITING ON THE WALL…

ooooh, tough guy here.
ooo, weak guy here.
Oh, so you’re dumb and repetitive too? You must impress all the other retard inbreds.