return2ozmaIllinois judge rules Donald Trump is disqualified from the state's 2024 election ballot
Funderpants So, just to be certain, when USA today keeps giving Trump the benefit of the doubt and uses words in this article like, riot, and alleged role, they’re carrying water for him right? The man has been found to have had a role andtaken part in an insurrection in multiple cases now. They should just say it.
When was he convicted of insurrection or anything related to that?
I watched it on TV. Doesn’t take a genius to watch the days events of January 6th unfold, and the months prior to know he attempted a coup to stay in power. Why it failed, I don’t have any insider knowledge.
But it’s come out that it was a lot more coordinated behind the scenes than what we all witnessed on Jan. 6th. We don’t need a jury for that (although there is an ongoing criminal investigation for it)
Literally the FBI said it wasnt at all coordinated. But that is a separate question to if Trump was responsible for what happened in any way.
ddhJudge Wallace in Colorado found that Trump engaged in insurrection. It’s now a legal fact.
I doubt USA Today is based in Colorado, other states might decide he didn’t engage in insurrection. There are still cases pending against him.
Donald Trump spent months telling people to come to rhe capital on January 6th, you really gonna try to say that wasn’t coordinated in anyway, hell?
But, that’s not even what I was talking about, Trump fired generals, and had a whole fake electorate scheme, and there was a behind the scenes coup attempt that the public didn’t really know about. That’s the part I was saying was coorsinated. Jan. 6th was a distract if anything for the real coup plot if anything.
And the only reason it failed is bcz there were a lot of high level officials in the government who wouldn’t go along with it.
What is wrong with telling people to come to the capitol? I understand your point, but he didnt do anything illegal or he would have been prosecuted already.
He IS being prosecuted for the fake electoral scheme. You also seem to think this country’s laws actually apply equally to everybody. You obviously haven’t been paying enough attention to what’s been happening.
Our system is pay to win.
So he has been convicted then? I agree, money and power talk; you ever wonder why this trial is happening now, not a couple years ago?
Because these things take forever to go through the courts and a major tactic Trump uses is delay delay delay. He constantly has his attorneys push for delaying any hearings. Then there are appeals which also delay, then bounce back to the other courts of various levels. It takes absolutely forever because he’s rich. If it were you or I we’d be sitting in prison and having a judgment within a month.
Literally people on Jan 6th were already convicted and are out of prison. The jan 6th shaman was sentenced to 41 months in prison and was already released back in the summer… I can understand how the process take a long time, but when was trump arrested?
Uh, couple of times now? Mug shots and everything…
You do know mug shots are not convictions right?
You do know arrests aren’t convictions, right? Whatever…
Gotcha, my mistake, I was actually looking for an answer to the question as an actual date to point out that he wasnt even arrested til 2023.
We all have a gigantic issue with that fact. He’s wealthy and now a “politician” so he gets Special Treatment™ while the plebs get the hammer.
That is usually true, but the machine doesnt want him back in. Do you think its just by chance he has been fined about a half billion on two BS cases?
Are you just trolling people now?
Disagreement is not trolling.
Eh, blatantly moving the goal posts when your earlier statement is directly contacted? Yeah, that is trolling.
Its always been about if trump was convicted of the crime people saying he is guilty of.
you ever wonder why this trial is happening now, not a couple years ago?
Each trial is unique, but there are two general reasons. First, in cases of large criminal networks, it’s typical to prosecute Lieutenants first and move up the chain, and that’s what has happened. That maximizes the ability of prosecutors to collect information before striking at the top. Second, Trump has no real defense on these cases, so his entire strategy has been delay, delay, delay. He wants to win the presidency and make the charges go away by whatever means he can muster.
Cost of living where I’m at is getting fucking expensive… I’ve always had hesitations about it but about how much does a nice rock to live under cost these days?
DaveFuckinMorganYou’d probably be able to more easily afford a place to live if a) the central bank didn’t print 50% of the money supply in recent years and b) if there weren’t millions of migrants competing with you for housing or c) people moving near you from places that are being overrun by migrants.
Its too complicated of an insult, you need to be more direct and more clever.
You blind, deaf, and dumb?
Just dumb. Did I miss the part he was convicted of insurrection?
You missed the part where he was found by a court to have engaged in insurrection.
So there was a trial and everything?
There was a legal finding of fact.
man, where’s that sealion gif when you need it?
jordanlundRemoved, keep it civil.
Jo Miran
Its paywalled, but does it talk about him being convicted of insurrection?
The House select committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol outlined 17 specific findings on Monday in the executive summary of its final report. Here are the findings, with additional context.
Annotation: This reflects the committee’s finding that Mr. Trump’s repeated false claims that the election was rigged had both a political and financial motive. During its second hearing, the panel introduced evidence that Trump supporters donated nearly $100 million to Mr. Trump’s so-called Election Defense Fund but that the money flowed instead into a super PAC the president had created. It was not just “the big lie,” the committee said. It was also “the big rip-off.”
Annotation: Mr. Trump and his allies filed more than 60 lawsuits challenging the results of the election and lost all but one of them. Many of the suits, the committee determined, were brought even after some of Mr. Trump’s closest aides — including his campaign manager, Bill Stepien, and his attorney general, William P. Barr — told him that there was no fraud that could have changed the outcome of the race.
I am aware of the facts, but again, there was no conviction of insurrection or anything related. Do you understand how the conviction is the important part, not what people claim?
Conviction is not the important part, at all.
The 14th Amendment was intended to keep former Confederates out of government. The people who wrote it had no intention of putting former Confederates on trial.
I agree, that amendment was directly talking about confederates who had done a known and agreed on insurrection.
It was also meant to apply to any future insurrections, like the one on Jan 6.
Jan 6th wasnt and insurrection, and trump would need to be convicted of an insurrection not just declared guilty by someone.
Nobody needed to be convicted in 1868, therefore Trump doesn’t need to be convicted today.
Yeah because it was literally a civil war…
The 14th Amendment applies to insurrections, not just wars. Any attempt to stop the function of government by force is an insurrection, including the Whiskey Rebellion, the Civil War, and Jan 6.
Sounds good if it is a universally understood insurrection.
Insurrection has a legal definition, and that’s the definition that counts.
Judges are the ones responsible for deciding whether a legal definition applies, and so far all those involved said it does.
Do you see the issue with one judge or a couple judges deciding who get to run for office at their whim?
Judges already do a lot more than that, they have the power to decide who lives and dies.
Thats fair, but Trump running for office could be a lot bigger than that if it leads to domestic conflict.
Judges generally don’t care if their decisions lead to domestic conflict. Nor should they, that’s how rule of law can succumb to mob rule.
I understand that, but when judges do things like remove people from ballots over accusation, that is obviously a political decision.
When they order congressional districts that obey the Voting Rights Act, that is also political. It has resulted in elected representatives losing their seats multiple times
Judges enforce the law, and politics are not above the law
The law is not what they say, its biased and is not real justice many times. Do you recognize the five or so prosecutions against trump are political, and could result in severe domestic violence?
Right, but 14A has only ever been used to disqualify two categories of people - public officials of the Confederacy and people convicted of an appropriate crime (such as the Espionage Act or charges related to Jan 6).
Trump is neither, so he’s going to challenge being disqualified by anything less on due process grounds. 14A is vague on that. Which ends with SCOTUS essentially deciding what due process should be, likely by looking at how it’s been used historically.
Can you do a text search and find the word “conviction” in the amendment?
Here’s the text:
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
And, again, this has all gone through Congress. Trump did it. Everyone knows it. Even the Trumpists know it.
And that was in reference to a particular known and agreed on insurrection that occurred. I think they were called the “reconstruction amendments”, and the reason was to get things back going after the civil war.
Yup, and the reason for guaranteeing the right to vote regardless of race was also a result of a specific insurrection that occurred.
I think it’s perfectly fair to say that if someone tried to overthrow the US government, they’re not qualified to be running the US government.
I think that would be fine if they were convicted of that crime.
Here’s a non-paywalled link: archive.md/Zm8dk
Thank you!
Just shut the fuck up, Russian Agent.
Here you go happy reading: www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/…/23SA300.pdf
You will find section G. Titled “President Trump engaged in an insurrection” to be of interest.