EkybioSomething something Biden bad
lunardroidOne side is working to dismantle democracy. The other side is not. If you don’t vote blue you are enabling Republicans to enact Project 2025. You would enable Republicans to take away rights from LGBT people in America. You would enable abortion bans and enable even more of the genocide in Gaza. You would enable Republicans to do all the types of stuff listed in the meme, and they will try.
I am convinced some of the far left that won’t vote for Biden because of the war in Gaza are being influenced by Republicans. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of those people are Republicans trying to get people not to vote for Biden. It may not be an ideal situation, but if you don’t vote for Biden because you think he is handling the war in Gaza horribly, you are doing exactly what the Republicans want you to do. Maybe someday we’ll be able to vote for someone better than him. But for now, you have to understand the reality of our two party system, and deal with it. At the very least, don’t do what the Republicans would want you to do: staying home rather than going out and voting for Biden
You don’t consider canceling primaries for a state that habitual votes against party favorite to be dismantling democracy?
Not even a couple cycles after the dnc’s lawyer told a judge primary votes don’t matter and they can appoint anyone and the judge agreed?
They’re not equally bad, but at this point it’s hard to call either democratic
Which will depress turnout, even if the people trying to earn you still vote for Biden
FuglyDuckso, out of curiosity, what has biden accomplished (or any one, really,) done to stop any of that?
so far, the only thing he’s successfully achieved is… increasing the DoJ’s focus on domestic terrorism. which, is something, I guess.
After three years of this shit getting worse; why should we believe Biden is able to actually stop it and protect our democracy? it took him two and half, or so, years for him to get the DoJ to assign Jack Smith to investigate trump for Jan 6, and documents, and stuff.
So, he’s done nothing to actually protect american democracy. The argument being made by the OC is that he’s protecting American democracy. Where’s that?
your source is mostly about stuff that Biden has fuck all to do with (crime is state and local; Economics, fed and treasury;) and the stuff he does… he’s not done all that much (immigration?) or has gone the wrong way (oil)
Under Biden we have student load forgiveness, we have a better ftc that actually investigates shit, we had an actual climate deal, and we have support for Ukraine, and have an investigation on trump. With trump we have none of that. We get total facism.
Also voting and protest/revolt are not mutually exclusive. At least under Biden we might not have to become a full on fascist state in the next year.
Under Biden we have student load forgiveness, we have a better ftc that actually investigates shit, we had an actual climate deal, and we have support for Ukraine, and have an investigation on trump. With trump we have none of that. We get total facism.
Most of the Climate deals are corporate subsidies for things they were going to do anyhow… eventually.
As good as the student debt forgiveness is… all of those loans that are being forgiven are loans that should have been forgiven ages ago. There’s zero fraud investigation on that. just a “oops. we let you get scammed for years.” (sometimes even decades.). Not exactly a brilliant dipslay of … governance.
Right now we don’t even have support for ukraine. so much for that much-vaunted bipartisanship that was one of his key sales pitches.
Also voting and protest/revolt are not mutually exclusive. At least under Biden we might not have to become a full on fascist state in the next year.
you do realize that prevailing rhetoric right now is “Don’t protest Biden now… let him win the election first!”, right? which is why I’m being down voted when I call Gaza Genocide.
I don’t think Biden can protect american democracy. I don’t think he has that ability.
“so much for that much-vaunted bipartisanship”
whose fault is that?
If Biden can take credit for the infrastructure act getting passed, he can take credit for everything the house does. Or doesn’t do.
(Joking, mostly. But remember his campaign? A major selling point is working across the aisle to get shit done. Seems to have been a niave argument.)
TrickDacybOtH sIdEs
staying home rather than going out and voting for Biden
I’m not going to stay home. I’m going to go to the polling place and leave that part empty on the ballot.
Here’s the bottom line: I cannot bring myself to officially support someone who I admit is an active supporter of genocide. Listen to yourselves. You are literally saying that I should feel bad because I won’t support someone who is actively supporting genocide. They are carpet bombing children, intentionally starving them, denying them medical care, all because of their ethnicity. He is expediting military aid to make sure they can.
I wouldn’t vote for Hitler just because I believed his opponent was worse. The reason I wouldn’t vote for Hitler is because of the genocide. I have to draw a line somewhere. If anything, I should probably have drawn it somewhere before genocide.
BTW, I’m not saying you’re a bad person if you do vote for Biden, or even that I’m somehow better for not. I get it. I just can’t bring myself to do it.
FenrirIIII hope you gain the knowledge to see the bigger picture before November. Allowing Trump to win guarantees that the genocide continues and even grows. Biden, at least, is reasonable and not bloodthirsty. Work with the system so that you can change it. Because the alternative is to burn us all down for your own hubris and lack of awareness.
Allowing Trump to win guarantees that the genocide continues and even grows.
Allowing Biden to win guarantees that the genocide continues and even grows.
Biden, at least, is reasonable and not bloodthirsty.
“Reasonable and not bloodthirsty”: expediting military aid to help the slaughter of children.
Work with the system so that you can change it.
Nothing I am doing is outside the system, and voting for Biden won’t help change the system.
I hope you gain the knowledge to see the bigger picture before November… Because the alternative is to burn us all down for your own hubris and lack of awareness.
Hubris is thinking that because other people disagree with you they must be ignorant and lack awareness. Hubris is thinking that if other people act differently from you, we will all burn down.
snooggumsYou are a bad person if you don’t vote against Trump.
SybilI’m voting against Trump and Biden. biden spent 50 years in power making trump possible.
So you are voting for Trump.
no, I’m probably voting for Jill Stein again, but I haven’t stopped donating to cornel west yet
So Trump supporter, got it. Please don’t fucking be registered in Wisconsin. Be useless somewhere else, thanks.
neither of them are trump. I think you have problems with reading comprehension.
and Im not registered in Wisconsin but I am in a swing state that went Obama Obama Trump Biden.
BassaForteWhen Trump wins your state, just know that you are personally responsible.
the only people responsible for trump winning are people who vote for him
MicromotIf you simply look at the numbers, you will see that if for example trump gets 10 votes and biden gets 8. The people who have not voted for either one in this scenario are enabling Trump to win. This is only relevant in swing states though
but if I vote for Biden I enable him to win. I don’t want that, either
I wouldn’t want him to win either but it is an alright compromise if the other option is trump
While the votes are being counted, are you going to think “I hope Biden beats Trump” or “I hope Trump beats Biden”?
You genuinely think neither of c those two outcomes would be worse? Then I respect your position, but I do not agree.
i said i won’t be hoping for either of them. i didn’t rank them at all
There are two possible outcomes. Will you hope for one, hope for the other, or not have a preference?
i’m hoping for neither.
The only candidate enabled by any vote is the candidate for whom that vote was cast
That is correct but you’re still allowing the worse of two options to happen by not voting for the “better” but not good option
I’m going to vote for someone I want to win. I have a policy of not voting for people I don’t want to win
Which would be valid if the US had an actual democracy and not whatever the current system is
it’s valid regardless of your analysis.
Valid might have been a weird choice of words. I meant that your way of voting only works out in an actual democracy. The opinion is valid either way
my way of voting always works: the person for whom i vote is the person i want to win.
This guy thinks Navalny wad a Nazi. He’s just a Russian asset.
this is just ad hominem
It’s more of an argument that your opinion is utter garbage based on your shit judgement.
it’s not an argument at all. they are just attacks on my person rather than my position.
v_krishnaJust a heads up that site picked the wrong district for me. The actual house site understands my zip is split between two districts (based on county lines) but this site picked the wrong one.
kttnpunkThe electoral Congress decides who’s president, though. Why shouldn’t I as a far-leftist vote third party to express my discontentment with a democratic party that only wants to appeal to the right? I’m tired of people telling me Biden is good enough when we had a actual progressive who had a shot just a few years ago. The climate can’t wait, and the Palestinian people certainly can’t. A placid, centrist left in the face of fascism looks useless to me I’m not sorry. Read a fucking history book.
People often say that voting third party is throwing away your vote, but using your vote as a protest like you describe is perfectly valid. Politicians from the major parties do care about how they can appeal to swingable voters, and third parties getting more votes does makes them more influential for future policy. You give up having influence between the two people who actually have a chance in the current election, but realistically you didn’t in the first place if you don’t live in a battleground state.
It’s your vote. Don’t let other people chide you for not spending it on what they think you should. Just use it for a cause that’s worthwhile to you. It’s the people who don’t vote at all that get ignored.
Fuck I needed to hear that, thanks. I just believe a lot of Biden voters are relentlessly optimistic and more than a little naive- there’s a lot of propaganda afoot lately but I think it’s important to talk about my choice too. Obviously we need things like ranked-choice voting for third party votes in this country to make a real difference ASAP but IIRC if a party’s candidate gets even 5% of the vote in a election they qualify for some federal funding. I don’t think it’s impossible to fight for better representation and win in the long run that way.
If you live in a state that’s not contested, sure vote third party if that makes you feel better. But the reality is that not voting blue in any purple state does benefit the party you are less aligned with. So in the case of a leftist it would benefit republicans. I also would love an alternative to a two party system but in THIS election a vote that benefits republicans is a vote for a 1 party system.
SaurokIt will continue to be that way in every election as long as people resign themselves to voting for either party that has no intention of ever giving you a “fix” to the two party system. Why would a Democrat or a Republican want to get a third party elected? Makes 0 sense. Let’s say you vote for a Democrat… How does that then incentivize them to do anything differently than how they’re already doing it? Your voting for them is tacit approval of their current agenda and party machinations. If they don’t lose or get challenged by something further to the left, they will never move left. They will continue to pander towards centerist voters. Since our Overton window is already right of center with the Democrats basically being center-right and the Republicans being further right, they will only move rightwards with this strategy. They only pander towards centrists because the centrist vote isn’t guaranteed. So in order for them to move leftward, they need to see that the left voter is not a guaranteed vote. The only way to do that at the ballot box is by voting for someone further to the left than the Democratic party. Yes that might mean that Democrats start to lose, but if they do it’s their own damn fault for not appealing to the leftist voter.
csm10495Voting for a third party with no chance of winning takes away a vote from the candidate from the 2 major parties who more closely represents you.
You’re not just doing a protest. If you believe in left values, you’re making it one vote harder for the left to win and one vote easier for the right.
Would you rather the opposition win and we lose democracy or more rights so you can prove your point?
It’s downright selfish imho.
Voting for a third party with no chance of winning takes away a vote from the candidate from the 2 major parties who more closely represents you
no it doesn’t. the vote belongs to the voter, and they can give it to any candidate they like. the votes are not owned by the 2 major parties.
You’re not just doing a protest.
they’re not calling it a protest, either. they’re calling it a vote.
If you believe in left values, you’re making it one vote harder for the left to win and one vote easier for the right.
democrats, especially joe biden, are not on the left
EldritchThey’re realistically though the closest thing we have. They absolutely do less damage when in office. If you actually want things to get better. We have to stop doing damage or at least slow down the damage first. It’s basic logic.
he wrote the usa patriot act and the crime bill. he stopped student debt from being discharged in bankruptcy. bill clinton pushed “welfare reform”. obama destroyed habeas corpus, murdering a us citizen without trial. kids-in-cages is an obama era policy. obama signed taarp.
i don’t believe they do less damage at all.
I believe that you believe that. But I also know that your belief in that doesn’t make it true. Whether or not one approves of Obama’s actions with drones overseas. Which for the record I don’t. He didn’t end habeas corpus. You are being hyperbolic and disingenuous. Despite my disproval of it. It was a one-time thing with some fairly decent justification behind it. That hasn’t led to any actual policy changes that could be pointed out.
The Patriot Act per Wikipedia
The Patriot Act was written by Jim Sensenbrenner.
Completely unsurprising. You’re lying again. To be fair Biden did claim credit. Stupid liberal doin stupid liberal things.
As far as TARP was concerned. Was there anything they could have realistically done that you would have approved of? No? Then why should we care what you think. Yes, tarp was a bit of a crock of shit. But unfortunately it was the best we were going to get and it was a good thing that we did get it ultimately.
As far as blocking student loan debt from being expunged with bankruptcy. Yes, stupid liberal doing stupid liberal things. However, Biden is also been one of the most active pushing for forgiveness of student loan debt. Could you be any more fake or disingenuous?
HACKthePRISONSeverything they said was right. your accusation of disengenuity is itself bad faith. just because you don't believe somebody could be to the left of Joe Biden and Barack Obama and Bill Clinton doesn't make you right.
thank you
what's Joe Biden lying too?
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4876107/user-clip-joe-biden-wrote-patriot-act
I pointed out that he claimed that. Seems you missed that part. Well if you were being genuine. But I don’t mistake you for being genuine. It isn’t recorded anywhere that I could find that he wrote it. Joe, Biden claiming that he did only means that he claims that he did. It doesn’t mean that he did.
this is another accusation of disingenuity that is, itself, evidence of bad faith engagement.
Not at all. I’m simply pointing out the facts as recorded. Joe Biden made a claim. There is no record showing his claim to be true. Bad faith engagement is claiming that something is true without proof. Which you don’t actually have.
I do think it’s possible that Biden may have had some input on the bill. But the fact remains that you all are absolutely arguing in bad faith. Misrepresenting the facts and evidence available.
another bad faith accusation.