aeva

hm, so there's a topic I'm interested in reading existing research on, but I don't know exactly what to search for.

Specifically, I'm looking for examples of or research about visual programming languages where the for making gui programs, where the language is also the program's own UI. The only example that comes to mind for me right now is the one in Nintendo's Labo games.

Feb 3, 2024 at 10:41pmWeb
Show threadbobFeb 3, 2024
@aeva you mean like scratch?
Show threadgkrnoursFeb 3, 2024
@aeva I'm not sure I understand. Does mentionning that godot is made with godot help?
Show threadaevaFeb 4, 2024
@gkrnours no, that's something else
Show threadhalcy​ Feb 3, 2024
@aeva trying to remember if you can do this in labview (i think maybe not) but I‘d honestly rather forget about labview most of the time
Show threadruby0x1 Feb 3, 2024
@aeva hmm the typical term might be bootstrapping? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrapping_(compilers) where the same language is used to make the compiler?
Bootstrapping (compilers) - Wikipedia

Show threadaevaFeb 4, 2024
@ruby0x1 if not I think this is at least an adjacent concept
Show threadOblomovFeb 4, 2024
@aeva @ruby0x1 other relevant expressions might be “dogfooding” (from the expression “eat your own dogfood”) and “self-hosting”, although the latter I've only seen ailed to compilers (a computer that can compile itself). But I'm afraid I don't know enough about visual programming languages to bring forth examples.
Show threadchris martensFeb 3, 2024
@aeva like where the programmer view and the “user of programs that the programmer writes” view are similar in some way?
Show threadchris martensFeb 3, 2024
@aeva the “texture” IF writing system was i think the first example of this kind of thing that i saw: https://nitku.net/blog/2014/11/introducing-texture/
Introducing Texture | Undo Restart Restore

I've been working with Jim Munroe (Everybody Dies, Guilded Youth) on developing a new kind of text game authoring system. It's called Texture, and it debuted yesterday at the WordPlay Festival in Toronto. Stories authored with Texture are structured like books.

Show threadchris martensFeb 3, 2024
@aeva i’d say an appropriate venue to look for research in would be VL/HCC, but honestly much of the recent work there hasn’t been very relevant. and i wouldn’t know how to refine the search
Show threadaevaFeb 3, 2024
@chrisamaphone yes; the programmer view is a superset of the user view
Show threadDr. Hagen TarnerFeb 3, 2024
@aeva Software Visualization as a sub-field of Information Visualization deals with this sort of problems. Good starting points for research would be Diehl’s Textbook on SV (2007) and the more recent state of the art reports (e.g., Chotisarn et al, 2020).
Show threadJanne MorenFeb 3, 2024
@aeva
Smalltalk should fit, as should Racket. Perhaps Godot counts too, as someone mentioned.
Show threadaevaFeb 3, 2024
@jannem none of these are visual programming languages
Show threadJanne MorenFeb 4, 2024

@aeva
Ah, you mean specifically Scratch and the like? Non-textual? Then no.

Scratch is the only visual language I know that's used at all - and arguably even Scratch is not 100% visual, as you still enter numbers and other parameters as text.

Also, the Scratch UI is not implemented in Scratch as far as I can tell. Are you sure the Nintendo UI is implemented in the user-level graphical system, and not a lower level thing?

Show threadFelipe KinoshitaFeb 4, 2024
@aeva something like interface builder on Nextspace or more like interlisp/smalltalk?
Show threadKathleen TuiteFeb 4, 2024

@aeva @chrisamaphone my friend rahul banerjee worked on a programming by demonstration system called BlockStudio, is that close to what you’re thinking?

Main website: https://www.blockstud.io/

Rahul’s old website with paper links https://homes.cs.washington.edu/~banerjee/

BlockStudio 3

Show threadaevaFeb 4, 2024
@kaflurbaleen @chrisamaphone maybe! I'll have a look tomorrow, thanks!