siderealJan 18, 2024
Got tired of having this conversation over and over again so I just spent way too long making this:
Show threadsidereal

In case anyone is wondering: yes, this is how train robberies operated in the Old West. Slip the switch after the locomotive passes by, passenger cars are stuck there. They could rob everyone and get away before the locomotive could even stop and reverse back to the passenger cars.

And in case you were also wondering: yes, this tactic is still used by people stealing UPS packages from trains in various American cities today.

Jan 18, 2024 at 9:32pmWeb
Show threadsiderealJan 18, 2024

This actually comes from railroad workers talking in comments on a fb group. I just made the meme for them.

They were like "those trolley memes are stupid, we have to do this in our railyard like once a week when some intermodal runs loose."

Show threadChris RealJan 18, 2024

@sidereal

It's a really dramatic demonstration of the fallacy of the zero-sum game.

I wish David Graeber was still alive to read it. He loved real-life analogies like this.

Show threadmymJan 19, 2024
@sidereal why do they have so many people tied to the tracks in the railyards!
Show threadhaifischJan 19, 2024
@sidereal wtf what railway is this, first time I’ve heard of anyone doing this 💀 “kicking cars” is pretty metal but forcing them fucking derail because cars “run loose” is actual insanity. brothers this is why we have switcher locomotives. this shouldn’t even happen when a line is sitting without a locomotive. not unless they’ve let the car air reservoirs bleed out, which does happen after some time - and is why they’re supposed to set handbrakes on some of the cars.
Show threadOpenDNA⚙️Jan 19, 2024
@haifisch @sidereal I'm guessing "intermodal" contains a lot of baggage. In an industry notorious for poor maintenance and under-investment, things with wheels suffer from the Tragedy of the Commons.
Show threadsabikJan 19, 2024
@opendna @haifisch @sidereal
"Laws, like sausages, cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made."
--John Godfrey Saxe(?)
Show threadhaifischJan 19, 2024
@opendna @sidereal yea pretty much lots of cargo moving around, intermodal yards are usually where boxes get loaded onto cars, eventually get pulled to a shunting yard to get organized by destination in a long train. never heard great things about management from any line tbh, once described as the “Eye of Sauron”. Railroaders do have a lot of rules and the saying “every rule is written in blood.” most of the time the rule helps avoid fatal injuries while on the job.
Show threadPaulDavisTheFirstJan 19, 2024
@opendna @haifisch @sidereal this is your public service announcement that there is no, and never has been any, Tragedy of the Commons. Even Garrett Hardin walked back the concept. Commons were always managed. What there has been and continues to be is greed and selfishness that attempts to abuse the existing regulatory and mgmt structures.
Show threadOpenDNA⚙️Jan 22, 2024

@PaulDavisTheFirst @haifisch @sidereal You're not wrong, historically.

...but the idea creates the behavior. MBAs are not like normal people. They act as if Econ models and parables are morally-imperative laws of nature.

Show threadNartagnan ⏚Jan 20, 2024

@sidereal

In France, their are securities forbidding to slip the switch when the tramway is not entirely gone.

Sorry for these railroad workers to have to work with an old infrastructure.

Show threadMighty OrbotJan 18, 2024

“this tactic is still used by people stealing UPS packages from trains in various American cities today.”

@sidereal [citation needed]

Show threadRicardusJan 19, 2024
@mighty_orbot @sidereal Yes. Citation needed.
Show threadJeff GriggJun 28, 2024

@Ricardus @mighty_orbot @sidereal

The videos I've seen say that the thieves cut open the containers and make off with the contents at normal train stops.

Like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PsAGvqrQaI&ab_channel=CurrentsNews

California Thieves Steal Packages From Train Cargo Containers

YouTube
Show threadJeff GriggJun 28, 2024

@Ricardus @mighty_orbot @sidereal

Here's a longer video, showing derailed cars.

Cause of the derailment is unknown.

Possibly caused to facilitate theft?
The thieves do have bolt cutters, to open the containers. Could be used on the switch locks too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQrTORBS-co&ab_channel=GermaninVenice

Thousands of Amazon,UPS Packages stolen off Cargo Trains in Los Angeles Downtown

YouTube
Show threadLisPiJan 18, 2024
@sidereal Interesting how badly secured the trains are.
Show threadMike KnellJan 19, 2024

@sidereal Except the passenger carriages would still be coupled to the loco, and couplings are designed not to break easily because they have to be able to handle the combination of the tractive effort of the loco plus whatever forces are acting in the opposite direction. Splitting points doesn’t result in a nice neat detachment or a catch point style derailment, it makes a heck of a mess.

My preferred train nerd answer to the stupid trolley problem is “neither, as rail vehicles like this are equipped with multiple emergency braking systems and safety devices thanks to 180 years of strict government regulation and accident research”.

Show threadMajor Denis BloodnokJan 19, 2024
@m @sidereal If you want to rob the train, do you care? (In particular, cold-bloodedly, submitting all the passengers to a shaking-around reduces the odds that they interfere...)
Show threadMike KnellJan 19, 2024
@denisbloodnok Depends. Actually killing them when the train jackknifes would cause problems- but yeah, in general the best way to rob a train has always been to find a point (aha) where it isn’t going to be going very fast and forcing it to stop. And trains back then didn’t exactly speed down the line by modern standards.
Show threadChookMother 🇦🇺🦘Jan 19, 2024
@sidereal So the locomotive just magically unhitches from the carriages? I thought they would be engineered to prevent that.
Show threadEnema CowboyJan 20, 2024
@sidereal Are the thieves cutting the locks on switches, or are they doing this in CTC areas?