Say it with me:

"IQ IS JUNK SCIENCE INVENTED BY WHITE SUPREMACIST EUGENICISTS TO JUSTIFY THEIR IDEOLOGY"

It is not an "inconvenient truth". It is not an otherwise robust instrument that is misused by some people with an agenda. It is not something that's pretty accurate but that is complicated by societal factors.

It's bullshit. Bupkis. Bunk.

As Johnathan Frakes says in that one show, "We made this one up. It's a total fabrication. It's pure fiction. It's a made up tale. This one was invented by a writer. It's an urban legend... that never happened."

Don't forget. Remind yourself if you have to.

We've got a few people who are responding to this post defending the usage of IQ, questioning that IQ is still used, assuming I don't know what IQ means, etc. I have neither the time nor the inclination to reply to each of these people and try to teach/prove anything to them, so I will simply say this.

I am trained in psychology and education at the master's level so I am fully aware of what it is, where it came from, how it works, etc. Moreover, I have had modern iterations of intelligence scales administered to me. Finally, I have worked in schools for 11 years in special education & counseling so I am very familiar with how these things function in the real world.

Psychology, education, medicine, etc are all irrevocably tainted by their participation in white supremacy, capitalism, ableism, and so on. These disciplines are not neutral or objective and their abuse of marginalized groups has never stopped. The tools, metrics, labels, definitions, categories, and all other outgrowths of these twisted and corrupted areas of study are therefore also sites of oppression. IQ is one of the worst of these.

Do your own research on scientific racism, yes. But also just know that our research tools are not exempt from those glaring flaws either. If you are going to even come close to finding something remotely resembling the truth, you have got to engage with these things critically. You have got to have the courage to reject the incorrect and violent assumptions underpinning these various fields. You have got to be ruthless with yourself also, for everything that you have been taught has the seeds of oppression within it.

None of what I said was wrong. IQ is fake. It's white supremacist propaganda. Get your shit together and THINK FOR YOURSELF

My last word on the subject will be this: I will never, ever be surprised to see a white person defending IQ. It was literally made to enshrine their superiority, why would they let that go? Of course they think it's useful, IT IS! It helps keep them on top.
@tillshadeisgone Ha, they stick to the script, don’t they?
@are0h they know they ain't got shit without it

@tillshadeisgone

I was just talking about this yesterday lol.

Hilariously- in an argument, I mentioned to a dudebro what my IQ was, and that I'm Rromani.

Suddenly, he did a 180 and was all "IT'S SUBJECTIVE, YOU PROBABLY JUST DID AN ONLINE TEST"

Sure, Brad, because they totally had those in 1990. White dudes only use IQ when it benefits them, and they cannot STAND it when someone who isn't white has a "higher IQ" than them.

@tillshadeisgone I too used to defend IQ but upon some self examination discovered it was because I tested very well and therefore *wanted* to think it was meaningful and important, and made me Special. Took some time to unfuck that.

IQ pride is equivalent to wishing someone showed up at your doorstep saying "you're a wizard, Harry". It only makes people feel entitled, and then angry (or in my case, slightly sad) when they discover their score means bupkis in the real world.

@tillshadeisgone and don't get me started on the Myers Briggs test, the astrology of office workers

https://digg.com/2015/myers-briggs-secret-history

Uncovering The Secret History Of Myers-Briggs | Digg

test2

@jjcelery @tillshadeisgone The astrology of office workers. 🤣 Can I nick that?
@jjcelery @tillshadeisgone we need a better "zodiac" type system. The only one I want for people is attachment theory. "Are you securely attached? Take this test to find out!"

@jjcelery @tillshadeisgone I was raised as a "gifted" kid, high IQ etc. it did nothing to ever help me at all. In fact the main thing it did was convince me for decades that I'm better than everyone else, even while I told myself I didn't believe that.
It's only even in the past few years that I started to unfuck that bullshit.

IQ is fucking horrible

@janDeni @tillshadeisgone oh hey, are you me šŸ„²šŸ˜‰

ā€All animals are equal but some are more equal than othersā€ is the root of all evil.

@jjcelery @tillshadeisgone extreme agreement. Basically every single nasty and hateful and destructive thing in the world can be traced to that thought
@janDeni @tillshadeisgone and next, of course, is people as things

@jjcelery
I went the other way, pretty much. When I took an IQ test a couple of times, I was critiquing the test as I took it. I've always scored very high on typical North American standardized tests, so I'm conscious of their flaws. So my conclusion was basically "Okay, I'm smart, but this test is crap!"

@tillshadeisgone

@tillshadeisgone I can't remember if it mentions IQ specifically but this is an excellent book I read recently covering the underlying phenomena.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Empire-Normality-Neurodiversity-Robert-Chapman/dp/0745348661

I think it helped develop my understanding of how these things work so hopefully it might help some others.

@tillshadeisgone Do we have more accurate and useful replacements?

Our local gifted education program uses IQ in part as an entry requirement and I know it was also part of some of the diagnostics trying to get my kids proper support for ADHD and potential ASD.

If DSM-V says X, I'm not qualified to refute it, but I also don't know what alternatives we have in the cases where it's genuinely used to try to help people.

@gooba42 @tillshadeisgone DSM is a tool of political oppression. -- R D Laing
@phaedral @tillshadeisgone But still the state of the art, I don't get to change that, I just have to work around/with it for now.

@gooba42 If they're using IQ as an entry requirement, your local gifted education system is discriminating against any Black kids in the system. This makes sense, because most gifted programs were created in response to desegregation in education in order to keep white kids in separate classes from Black kids.

Using IQ to support students with ADHD or autism is also discriminatory against Black children. When you say that these tools are used to help people, I would say, "used to help whom? And for what reason?"

If you're confused as to why, I recommend you go read my thread again.

We have other tools we can use to identify disability.

@tillshadeisgone I recognize the racial discrimination issue. My white kids aren't being discriminated against and I do recognize that privilege.

I still don't know how to properly divest ourselves of such privilege while still getting the necessary support from a system whose established standards I'm not empowered to change.

As a professional in that space, do you have recommendations for alternative approaches or tools?

@tillshadeisgone @gooba42

When I was a kid, I was in a "gifted" program.
There was only one black kid in the entire class.

@tillshadeisgone I love (sarcastically) how people will leap to "research" the biases of a long-standing institution by... asking another arm of the institution if it's biased.

Like... science isn't going to admit to being entirely saturated with white supremacy y'all. It certainly isn't going to un-erase it's own history to incriminate itself.

Hell, the very concepts of science and academic research came from the exact same socio-political cesspool as colonial imperialism and whiteness to begin with.

Wish people would quit asking a known liar if they're telling the truth.

@mordremoth @tillshadeisgone Science isn't a conscious entity. There are people who do science and yes, pretty much all of them have a lot of biases of which they are not aware, but 'science' can't admit to anything because 'science' doesn't think. It's people that need to change, not some amorphous concept.

@ariaflame Re-read the last line of my (month old, btw) post and tell me again how wrong I am.

Way to miss the damn point lmao

@mordremoth The only thing I disagreed with is treating science as if it were a thinking thing. But I guess the thread is now so old it's hard to work out who you were talking about as the liar.

@ariaflame If you're having trouble understanding someone's point, ask questions.

Jumping on a complete goddamn stranger to "disagree" with a flippant rhetorical turn of phrase in a conversation that never was meant for you to begin with and doing it weeks after the fact just makes you seem like you're being combative for no good reason.

I don't literally think "science" is a being, ffs. Sometimes people say things in silly ways to make a point; and quibbling over phrasing isn't going to endear you to anyone but trolls. Again, if you find yourself unsure of what someone means, maybe ask them instead of this white reply-person nonsense.

I'm muting your account; your pointlessly antagonistic behavior is not the kind of thing I want to waste my time and energy on here. Please learn something from this.

@tillshadeisgone I've known successful people who had "low IQ scores". Some of the questions are culturally and racially biased.

I've taken many IQ tests just to have psychologists even BEGIN to LISTEN to me about my autism.

I've always been told by medical professionals that autistic people have low IQs. So doctors wouldnt even talk to me when I told them of my experiences.

And its invalidating and harmful. It leaves a lot of autistic folks with imposter system and medical trauma.

@tillshadeisgone And the first go round when I had the "good insurance", the psychologist screwed me by saying my IQ was high so he didnt know if I had autism. He needed to do a lot more testing. My insurance company said "Haha no, then we're not approving any further tests or care."

And I try not to be bitter about the interventions I could have gotten to help with autism.
And so many people wont believe me when I say I'm autistic "because you seem smart!" (aka high IQ).
I hate this.

@jtphillipsmnr all I can say is "wow". The multiple violent systems all ganging up to fuck you over. I'm so sorry that happened to you.
@tillshadeisgone Thanks. Just... trying to move on but not forget. Situations like this with similar people in power happen all the time. The best idea I have right now is to warn and encourage other autistic folks that have people in power telling them weird and messed up stuff. (It happens a lot to autistic folks across the spectrum.)
@tillshadeisgone quite a few "inconvenient truths" are actually "convenient (for their proponents) falsehoods"
-F
@tillshadeisgone
Wisdom is greater than understanding, which is greater than knowledge, which is greater than intelligence. And all wisdom requires is the ability to love one another. Anyone can have that. Those who test others often don’t pass themselves. The mere testing of people instead of supporting them reveals a lack of imagination, impatience, a false sense of superiority based not on understanding or caring but ā€˜calculating’. Something a machine can do. That is not intelligence.
@tillshadeisgone Assuming Gould's "The Mis-Meausre of Man" has been mentioned? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man
The Mismeasure of Man - Wikipedia

@tillshadeisgone

The IQ test was also debunked a million times. And yet, people still use it to justify their bigotry (and failing miserably).

@tillshadeisgone Side question: What is that show you're talking about? I see references all the time but have never understood them.

@book it's a show called "Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction" from the 90s/early 2000s! You can read about it here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Belief:_Fact_or_Fiction

The premise of the show is that they would depict certain, nigh unbelievable events and then invite the audience to guess whether the events actually happened or not. Some of them were fake and some actually did happen. Then, a few years ago, someone made one of my favorite supercuts of all time with clips from that show of Johnathan Frakes telling the viewers that the depicted events were fictional:

https://youtu.be/GM-e46xdcUo?si=di4Mf4UoIOWHOlnW

Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction - Wikipedia

@tillshadeisgone This is a little culture with which I am entirely unfamiliar.

Time to binge!

Thanks, sib.

@tillshadeisgone Also gets tweaked upon by white supremacists to this day. They're obsessed with it.
@tillshadeisgone Are you arguing that General Intelligence doesn't exist, or just that IQ is a flawed and racist way to measure it?

@tillshadeisgone

Yeah, I know what you mean

If IQ was the absolute value it's supposed to be, then taking the test multiple times should result in essentially the same number.

But most of us learn from our mistakes, so that never made sense to me about the whole thing.

@tillshadeisgone IQ tests measure how good you are at doing IQ tests. Been awhile since I took one, but I recall it being a bunch of logic, math, spatial manipulation type questions. So if you've got a high score, you're good at solving those kinds of problems when they're presented to you on paper with simple diagrams.

@jimvernon
@tillshadeisgone

Yes! It favors some *very specific* kinds of intelligence. There's quite a few abilities that we associate with intelligence that cannot even be measured by that type of test.

The idea there could be a test that objectively determines everyone's relative intelligence is absurd. There's a clear agenda to elevate certain knowledge & abilities over others.

But I suppose recognizing that bias might require a different kind of intelligence than what IQ tests measure.

@tillshadeisgone Also besides IQ, I remember some gatekeeper college entrance test, maybe SAT in the 1960s where they had these logic puzzle questions. I had never seen anything like it and couldn’t do them.

Later I realized you were supposed to buy these study guides to learn how to take the tests, but I was lower middle class whose parents hadn’t gone to college so had no idea.

@tillshadeisgone ooc: not only is IQ a racist fantasy, it's also a sexist one! They found that people with girl parts on average outperformed people with boy parts until they weighted spatial reasoning more heavily. Guess what it weighs more heavily now. Total dogshit racist sexist fantasyland hogwash number.

As an adult who does not work in the education or psychology space, I have basically only heard the worst people you can imagine talk about IQ like it is in any way a helpful number.

@tillshadeisgone
Specifics of the origin aside, Radiolab did an excellent piece on the case of "Larry P" a few years ago that brilliantly and horrifyingly tells the story of how it became illegal in California to administer an IQ test to a child who is Black (but any other child remains fair game).

https://radiolab.org/podcast/g-miseducation-larry-p

G: The Miseducation of Larry P

More than a million American kids a year get IQ tested, but in the state of California, if your kid is Black, they almost surely won’t be given one.

Radiolab Podcasts | WNYC Studios
@tillshadeisgone I always thought it silly to summarize the workings of the purportedly most complex system known in the universe with one number. I mean, come on.

@tillshadeisgone I take your word that IQ and its foundations are deeply flawed. In any case, at best, it reduces something ephemeral, complex and multidimensional to a single number without context.

I'm gifted. Due to my male sex and white skin, I'm more likely to be diagnosed and to benefit. Still, I also suffer. Giftedness is a real condition with disadvantages. I understand why you want to say this, but when you claim that IQ is only bunk, it feels like you deny my problems and that hurts.

@tillshadeisgone I still remember in the mid-90's mum doing a university assignment for her anthropology course that critiqued IQ tests. There was so much evidence from the early 1900's that they were, at best, racist, that it's baffling that IQ tests are still used
@tillshadeisgone
No. Lies. Detected.
All else is a shamble of protecting something that (I'm side-quoting Fripp here) "was always questionable, often improper, and is indefensible"