George DinwiddieDo you desire to know the truth, or close to it, versus fiction, misinformation, or lies?
If so, what makes that preferable to you?
Orion Edwards@gdinwiddie I desire to know the truth because of consequences. If I make a decision based on something that is wrong (whether it be a lie, fiction, or simple accident), then I’m not going to make the best decision, which will lead to worse outcomes in the long term for myself and probably others.
@borland
Thanks! I feel the same way, but I'm curious if there are other motivations that people have.
Thanks! I feel the same way, but I'm curious if there are other motivations that people have.
Jesse T. Alford@gdinwiddie prediction value; the truth is more predictive. Beyond that’s dominant, root factor, the truth has advantages in aligning around and persuading, because it can be a sought and checked. Truth value, even when high-effort to check, is a meta-trust system. When beliefs I select for reasons other than truth conflict with the truth, that’s evidence against the trustworthiness of the other reasons.
@anEXPer
Predictive value is certainly a good outcome, and tests the truthfulness.
One thing I note is that our predictions, while based on beliefs selected for truth, may not account for other randomness in the context that our current understanding of truth hasn't considered. That can make a narrow truth that is outside it's expected range seem no better, or even worse, than a "obviously" biased belief.
Contextual boundaries are a pernicious problem in knowledge and understanding.
@gdinwiddie to be sure, truth isn’t quite “predictive” by itself - intelligence is predictive, and truth is useful to it when available at reasonable expense. Predictive power is only modest evidence for truth in any complex system.
@anEXPer
Yes. One cluster of ideas I'm struggling with is the inherent limits of knowledge, the consequences of that, and the ability to "generally succeed" in the face of that.
Yes. One cluster of ideas I'm struggling with is the inherent limits of knowledge, the consequences of that, and the ability to "generally succeed" in the face of that.
@gdinwiddie I’ve been playing with considering things “solutions” rather than directly as knowledge, and including “validity” as a relational concept. So you know various solutions to problems or other questions, and the validity of those solutions varies with context; selecting/applying solutions is a fractal problem.
@gdinwiddie this also means that context stability, transferability, and solubility are major factors in success. Someone with access to a stable, transferable, or successfully imperial or general context will tend to be more successful because more of their solutions - including solution-selection - will retain sufficient validity to accumulate experience and resources.
John Dewey@gdinwiddie
Not sure if some dark mood prompted the question "does anyone out there desire truth, and if so, could you tell me why?"
After mulling the question over and rewriting a few different replies, I decided you might need a little pick-me-up. I apologize for using ChatGPT, but it's worth a read of my last question and its answer:
https://chat.openai.com/share/92f7d7cf-7b59-46a8-9c4e-bc1584bd21eb
(I agree with it's spirit and thrust wholeheartedly)
Not sure if some dark mood prompted the question "does anyone out there desire truth, and if so, could you tell me why?"
After mulling the question over and rewriting a few different replies, I decided you might need a little pick-me-up. I apologize for using ChatGPT, but it's worth a read of my last question and its answer:
https://chat.openai.com/share/92f7d7cf-7b59-46a8-9c4e-bc1584bd21eb
(I agree with it's spirit and thrust wholeheartedly)
@Juhududu
No dark mood. I'm just trying to glimpse others' opinions and feelings on the subject.
No dark mood. I'm just trying to glimpse others' opinions and feelings on the subject.
@gdinwiddie yea, highly plausible the projection was me. Ok. So, my desire to know the truth is because it's just easier to get small and big stuff done. As the others have said. Expecting it from those around me as well as my speaking it.
But yes, In the public sphere, it sure feels like a constant struggle against the very motivated and seemingly very organized forces of lies and deceit.