I hope everyone is following that #Tesla sympathy strike in Scandinavia because it’s getting even better by the day.
Norwegian unions have now joined Swedish and Danish ones.
The Danish pension fund has announced its going to dump it’s Tesla shares.
Finnish unions are talking about joining.
And now this:
@taco That's not the case that matters. The case that matters is the one against the Motor Vehicle Authority, which Tesla already won an injunction against, so they can pick up their plates in person. The Motor Vehicle Authority is appealing.
Vs. the postal service, Tesla did not "lose legal action", they just failed to get an injunction, so the case will now proceed normally.
Note that there are options for even if they can't get plates (which, as mentioned, they can)
@nafnlaus which is fine.
People who ordered Teslas and have been on waiting lists should be able to drive them, but it’s awful press for them.
@taco IMHO, I'm pretty sure it'll end up:
The Motor Vehicle Authority will have to provide new plates in a viable manner, as that's their legal obligation.
PostNord will have to let Tesla claim the existing plates they have in a timely and reasonable manner, because you can't keep someone's property from them (theft).
HOWEVER:
The Postal Service won't have to DELIVER anything, however (now or ever), because it's worker's rights not to work in a strike.
@taco Basically, if Tesla wants their plates, or anything else, they'll have to be their own mail carriers ;)
(I wouldn't be surprised if they start using intermediaries for packages, too, so that the address isn't "Tesla")
@nafnlaus tbh I have zero idea how entrenched personal and collective rights are in Scandinavia.
I was recently very shocked to learn that New Zealanders basically don’t have any. Who’d have guessed?
@taco Oh yeah, the Nordics are the most union-friendly place on Earth. I think mine (Iceland) is #1, at ~80-90%
(Note that many of the other countries with nominally-high union membership rates... aren't really. For example, in China, everyone at big companies is part of a nominal "union", but really it's just a mouthpiece for the CCP).
@nafnlaus Canada is sort of… fuzzy… when it comes to unions.
Your right to strike and bargain collectively is protected, sympathy strikes generally aren’t (at least so far, I think that’ll change next time it hits the Supreme Court).
Unfortunately we still have at-will employment for everyone else.
@taco @nafnlaus Last time a large American company, Toys R Us, tried this they had to fold because they basically couldn't get anything done. No garbage pickup. No electricians. No shipping in or out etc etc.
https://www.nytimes.com/1995/08/06/nyregion/in-brief-toys-r-us-settles-labor-dispute-that-made-headlines-in-sweden.html for one source, there seems to be loads on reddit too.
Now Tesla is quickly heading in the same parts and I'm here for it. If they don't like it they can leave, we'll be alright.
@badsynthesis @taco And?
Ignoring that Tesla isn't high-volume retail and is in an extremely different market space, you apparently don't understand:
Tesla neither cares, nor does it need you.
Not only are its needs tiny, the company has been, since day one, about vertical integration. Since day 1, if anything ever stands in their way or slows them down, they just in-house it. They *already have* electricians. They already *have* janitors. Whatever you don't do, *they'll just do*.
@badsynthesis @taco They make €10k per car. Versus that, any inefficiency-costs are meaningless. They literally could not care less.
What they *do* care about? Not giving IF Metall any sort of a "win".
And FYI: every job that they inhouse is a job lost to "sympathy strikers". Like, for example, Hydro Extrusions stopping supplying ingots? LOL, every smelter on Earth makes ingots. All it means is layoffs at Hydro Extrusions and a permanent blacklist. And the jobs go to, say, China.
@badsynthesis @taco And FYI, but they're not just going to wait for the shoe to drop, either. Any supplier or service provider who they think might not be reliable in this, I 100% guarantee you that they're *preemptively* working on plans to replace them.
The irony is that the main people you're hurting are A) Swedish Tesla employees, who have to deal with all the changes and constant harassment by the unions (and in your fantasy, 100% of them losing their jobs by Tesla leaving), and..
@nafnlaus @badsynthesis except that they do care.
Elon wouldn’t throw anti-union tantrums on his 44bn dollar fringe right vanity project if they didn’t.
@taco @badsynthesis What you call "throwing tantrums" is an honest expression of his opinion. He thinks IF Metall is basically the Mafia running a shakedown racket. And he has no intention of paying.
This is not defending Musk - I wouldn't, and I don't have to. Because his view is incredibly common. Most cars in the world are made at non-union factories.
I'm just telling you what's going to happen. Tesla will simply inhouse the jobs, so if that's where your strategy ends, pick a new one.
@taco @badsynthesis BTW, that "most cars in the world are made at non-union factories" thing also applies to all those cars badged "Volvo" that are actually made at Geely factories in China.
Chinese auto factories are nominally "unionized", but the union is actually just a front between the CCP and the factory owners, rather than an org that actually does anything to look after worker interests. CCP doesn't let ordinary citizens actually organize.
You can stop the Elon sucking, it won't get you anywhere.
@joel_falcou @taco @badsynthesis A crude sexual thought-terminating cliché. That clearly means you're very intelligent and very good at defending your arguments. 
And FYI, you're speaking to someone who's done far more to try to get Elon removed from his position than a thousand couch warriors like you will ever do in their lives.
@nafnlaus @taco @badsynthesis still you sound like a teslabro so ...
Sorry my sexual imagerie was too crude for your eyes. Your takes are still bad.
@iCarlosPro @taco @badsynthesis The point is that there is "loss" that's going to happen from Tesla, as I've more than laid out, so if your extremely public goal is to achieve a loss, and you fail at that, what's that going to do to *you*?
And FYI, Spain made 127k BEVs last year- all companies operating in Spain *combined*. Tesla sold nearly double that many in Europe last year.
And Tesla is not "a person". It's a company of something like 150 thousand people. Personification of it is *weird*.
@nafnlaus @taco @badsynthesis it’s workers rights what is all about so, of course, as a worker, I DO CARE. Everyone should care.
It’s irrelevant that only 127K were electric. Given the percentage of BEV cars that Europe has nowadays, compared to other propulsion systems. Also, van and light vehicles are produced here. Good quality products, reasonably priced.
If personification is weird, they shouldn’t give that importance to their CEO…..
@iCarlosPro @taco @badsynthesis If it's about workers' rights, then why don't you care about what TESLA'S WORKERS ACTUALLY WANT?
"It’s irrelevant that only 127K were electric." - the EU is rapidly moving toward complete electrification. Tesla (the world's largest BEV manufacturer) has performed so well in the market due to being able to actually make EVs at profitable margins, unlike other manufacturers (outside of China) who have little to no margins.
@iCarlosPro @taco @badsynthesis "because I DO CARE about Tesla’s workers rights"
Then LISTEN TO THEM - as a whole, not cherry-picked some tiny minority - and don't substitute your hot takes for their actual experiences. You're not their mother. THEY judge for themselves whether they like their job and want IF Metall involved. And *overwhelmingly* they've given IF Metall their backs.
(I don't mean that figuratively, I mean some SCs have even posed for pictures doing it quite literally)
“Tesla neither cares, nor does it need you.”
Sounds like Nordic workers and society are saying,
“We don’t care about Tesla, nor do we need it.”
@DavidM_yeg @taco @badsynthesis By "nordic workers", you mean "Non-Tesla workers", since almost nobody at Tesla Sweden is actually striking, because who would give a rats arse about what *they* want. :Þ
And I'm not sure you understand how the Boomerang Effect (the Streisand Effect being a famous subset) works. Teslas are 6% of new car sales in Sweden. People who dislike unions buy more than 6% of cars in Sweden. So, you know, do the math on that one.
Well, seeing that Tesla employs only about 120 people in Sweden (1/1000% of the population) and has almost no market share there… I’m guessing Sweden will come out of this just fine.
@DavidM_yeg @badsynthesis @taco You're looking at direct jobs (and FYI, it's over double that, you're only looking at mechanics). Supply chains are 1-2 orders of magnitude more than that.
And "who's going to come out of this just fine" is Tesla. All you're doing is harassing workers who want nothing to do with you.
I’m not doing anything other than laughing at all the frenetic ‘splaining about how not allowing Tesla to do whatever they want is somehow going to hurt Nordic nations.
@taco @nafnlaus Deeply it seems.
But let's look at it how we do it in Austria. In a way, every person working (including employers) are at least once “kind of” unionized.
E.g beside the "real" unions, each employee is part of the worker chamber, by law. And basically all industries have collective bargained framework contracts.
And all businesses are part of the "business chamber", which can negotiate for them if there are no more specific industry associations.
@taco @nafnlaus The classic freelancers (e.g. lawyers, doctors, pharmacists, …) all have their own chambers, which btw are also their administrative self-regulatory bodies.
The system goes by the name of “social partnership”, and has been (in the last decades slightly less, but still) a kind of shadow government, regulating more of the workplace conditions in Austria than the government.
@taco @nafnlaus So coming back to Mr Elon "I hate if the other side bargains collectively" Musk. Sorry dear boy, in any number of European countries, collective bargaining is deeply entrenched, in some certainly by law.
But as according to the con man in chief, his companies already pay better and have better benefits (another funny thing for most Europeans, our benefits are usually decided by law & collective tariffs), so what is his complaint?
@taco @nafnlaus (So what does Elon want to decide on benefits? If the workers get free drinks in the restrooms at company expense or not? Healthcare is defined usually by law. Vacation, paid sick leave, etc too. Industry collective contracts can improve on the legal minimums)
So he can offer potentially an add-on healthcare plan (e.g. in Austria dental is only covered partially by the legal one), free meals and drinks. HomeOffice for the office workers? Not his thing, AFAIK.
@yacc143 @taco You have it backwards. What you call "Chambers" (what I know as "Works Councils")? *Tesla Has That*. There's one at Tesla's factory in Berlin-Brandenburg. They didn't lift a finger to stop it. It's *IG METALL* that's keeps opposing and trying to undercut the works council ("chamber") at Tesla because they want to represent the workers directly instead.
And lastly, this isn't about "Elon". It's about what the *employees of Tesla* want. And they voted.
You need to decide: are you on the side of IG Metall, or are you on the side of the workers? Because you can't be on both at the same time, as the workers are opposing IG Metall.
Aushorchen von Mitarbeitern, Anstiftung zu Verstößen gegen das Arbeitsrecht, "Sandkastenspiele": Der Tesla-Betriebsrat erhebt harsche Vorwürfe gegen die IG Metall. Die hatte erst kürzlich die Arbeitsbedingungen im Werk Grünheide kritisiert. Von Philip Barnstorf
@nafnlaus @taco But you are talking about Germany, not Scandinavia.
That problem will solve itself, Tesla is paying worse than the average German car industry, has troubles finding workers, and funny they seem to have a much higher than average (by German standards) work accidents in the Tesla plant.
https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/tesla-gruenheide-arbeitsunfaelle-umwelt-100.html
With the Betriebsrat it's hard to assess if it's really independant, or if the company got a corporate-friendly one elected. 🤷
@nafnlaus @taco
But as said, as Tesla Germany is not meeting industry standards in how it handles their workers, they do have problems finding enough of these. (Lucky for them, they are near to Poland, so they can try to source these there)
But the topic was Tesla in Scandinavia, collective bargaining, and I explained that collective bargaining is deeply entrenched in many European countries.
@nafnlaus @taco
Basically, in Austria, even businesses and business owners, are by law "unionized". Not in the sense that the workers are unionized, but that all businesses are mandatory members of their chamber, which is authorized to negotiate collectively for them.
And Austria is not considered very "socialist" compared to Scandinavia, these concepts of consensual co-governing in business were implemented after the war mostly by conservative-socialdemocratic coalition governments.
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