WififluisteraarNov 26, 2023
Hugo Slabbert ⚠️

K, I apparently am late to the "sharks have been around for a ridiculously long time" thing. I mean, I know they're ancient, but I really did not have a clue just how ancient, relative to other "things that have been around forever".

The one that blew my mind is the age of sharks relative to the existence of the universe.

By our best understanding, the Big Bang happened about 13.8 billion years ago. Sharks have existed on Earth for about 450 million years. That means sharks have existed for approximately 3% of the entirety of the existence of the Universe.

Standard "some things that sharks are older than" list:

  • Saturn's rings (~100 million years old)
  • The Pleiades cluster (75-150 myo)
  • One galactic orbit of the sun (200-225 my)
  • North Star, aka Polaris (estimated at ~70 myo)
  • The Atlantic Ocean (~150 myo)
  • Pangea (formed ~335 million years ago)
  • Trees (390 myo)
Nov 26, 2023 at 4:34amWeb
Show threadMichael VanceNov 26, 2023
@hugo The one that continues to amaze me is that the Great Lakes are only 10k-14k years old, which is miniscule on geologic scales. Recommend reading about the last glacial maximum, the Holocene glacial retreat, the little Ice Age.
Show threadHugo Slabbert ⚠️Nov 26, 2023
@mtothevizzah good pointers, thanks! Honestly my geology knowledge is fairly lacking, but these kinds of planetary scale events are just astounding to consider.
Show threadClaus AranhaNov 26, 2023
@hugo Wait, sharks are older than trees? That is seriously cool.
Show threadneville parkNov 26, 2023
@caranha @hugo caveat: the first shark we'd probably recognize as a shark didn't appear till the Devonian, a mere 380 mya https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/shark-evolution-a-450-million-year-timeline.html
Shark evolution: a 450 million year timeline | Natural History Museum

Sharks have survived five mass extinctions. Discover what the first sharks were, when the megalodon first appeared, and how this group of fishes changed over 450 million years.

Show threadClaus AranhaNov 28, 2023

@nev @hugo Ah, here come the shark purists to spoil our fun : 😉: 🦈

(j/k, that's pretty cool info too!)

Show threadUlrik Nyman ⬡Nov 26, 2023
@caranha @hugo And trees is not a species, but a strategy employed by multiple different unrelated species.
Show threadAlanNov 27, 2023
@UlrikNyman Trees are just crabs for plants.
Show threadPatrick KPunktNov 28, 2023
@caranha @hugo
The time difference from first sharks to first trees is about the same as the time difference from the dinosaur extinction to today.
Show threadRichard HendricksNov 26, 2023
@hugo Sharks being older than trees always blows my mind. What did the first shark to see a downed log floating in the water do? Try to bite it, and get very confused?
Show threadTipNov 26, 2023
@hendric @hugo Sharks are successful but still not very bright. Every shark since has attacked that downed log
Show threadThe DoctorNov 26, 2023
@hugo Holy shit.
Show thread@stevewfoldsNov 26, 2023
@hugo Seen several sharks. Smallest was a pale Yellow 3’ Sand shark in a tide pool. Picked it up and carried to the water. Normal were 5-6’ Blue sharks also in sight of NYC. Largest was a 65’+ Black Nurse shark about 6-700 miles East of Miami, on a New York to Virgin Gorda passage. Chance, under sail in light winds within 100 yards before it submerged. It was almost as the big as the ship.
Show threadVolineNov 27, 2023
@stevewfolds @hugo Does the Black Nurse Shark have another, more common name? I can find nothing about it.
Show thread@stevewfoldsNov 27, 2023
@Voline @hugo You are correct. The largest is the Whale shark at 60’. The White Spots on Black background is the one. The ship was about 60’ on the water line. 52 years ago…
Show threadVolineNov 27, 2023
@stevewfolds
Beautiful
Show threadCmdr_Halo_JonesNov 26, 2023

@hugo

Yeah but what about Keith Richards?

Show threadJim KofronNov 26, 2023
@Cmdr_Halo_Jones @hugo You. Win.
Show threadn3wjackNov 26, 2023
@hugo you watched The Meg didn't you? 😉
Show threadRaulNov 26, 2023

@hugo Sharks are just some of those ancient inhabitants of our misnamed planet: "Water."

Brings to mind "The Magic of Reality" by Dawkins. It has a nice part where he shows a hugely long list of photos starting with our own, then our father or mother, one of our grandparents, and so forth for one of our ancestors in each of our previous generations. If we could go back far enough, as in a few million years, the photo would show us.. not even a mammal but a fish!

Show threadSandeha LynchNov 27, 2023
@raulinbonn @hugo
Neil Shubin's 'Your Inner Fish' should probably get a look-in here.
Show threadRaulNov 27, 2023
@sandehalynch @hugo Haven't read that one yet but adding it to the list
Show threadSandeha LynchNov 27, 2023
@raulinbonn @hugo
Just found that part 1 (at least) of the documentary is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8ttoKGxEKc
Your Inner Fish (Episode 1) - Your Inner Fish

YouTube
Show threadRobert BuchbergerNov 26, 2023
@hugo dragonflies are similarly old, around 300 million years. They don’t beat sharks, but they do beat most of your list too!
Show threadrspNov 26, 2023
@hugo That's a neat comparison. Something related to think about: the shark lineage and the "all other vertebrates" lineage diverged 420 MYA. Why did one of those two lineages diversify morphologically so much more than the other? The two lineages are equal in age, but not equal in morphological diversity.
Show threadHugo Slabbert ⚠️Nov 27, 2023
@rspfau I guess sharks lucked out early with a form that is successful across a wide array of geological periods? Sharks: "We're perfect just the way we are, thanks!"
Show threadEhudNov 26, 2023
@hugo ‘sharks are older than the ocean’ would make a good bumper sticker.
Show threadMichael BuschNov 26, 2023

@hugo @nyrath

The age of Saturn's rings is argued about; as is how long they will persist.

They could be as old as a few hundred million years.

But probably still not as old as sharks.

Show threadHenry CobbNov 26, 2023
@hugo Sharks have been around the galaxy twice.
Show threadHugo Slabbert ⚠️Nov 26, 2023
@Hcobb meanwhile humans are out here having only gone 0.15% of one trip around the galaxy.
Show threadKhleedrilNov 26, 2023
@Hcobb @hugo Happy birthday to you....
Show threadBen AvelingNov 26, 2023
@hugo Yes. But they were quite different to modern sharks.
Show threadSloan StudioNov 26, 2023
@hugo And the Greenland Shark is estimated to live 250 to 500 years old. Fascinating animals.
Show threadEngagedPureLandNov 26, 2023
@hugo Seems like Lovecraft should’ve chosen a shark template for his Great Old One Cthulhu, given that sharks predate octopuses.
Show threadSeiðrNov 26, 2023
@hugo "What do you mean by environmental morphological optimisation?" by $500, Mr. Trebek.
Show threadHugo Slabbert ⚠️Nov 26, 2023
@Illuminatus and now you immediately had me thinking of carcinization. Give it another few hundred million years and maybe all we'll have in the seas are sharks and various forms of crabs! 😝
Show threadMinaraNov 26, 2023
@hugo I just learnt today that they're older than trees because I was visiting relatives and their children were watching a TV Contest in which they asked which were older. Nobody, not the contestants and not us, but my partner got it right. I'm still kind of astonished.
Show threadRiku VoipioNov 26, 2023
@hugo Sharks are also older than Land animals (428 myo). Geologically that is right after sharks appeared, so I shall jump to the conclusion that it's not co-incidental - sharks appeared and some animals decided it's time to start evolving lungs ;-)
Show threadJeff ClatworthyNov 26, 2023
@suihkulokki @hugo I enjoy the idea that other sea creatures “Nope’d” out of the ocean when Sharks came along. 😄
Show threadΣειληνός (Seilēnós)Nov 26, 2023
@suihkulokki @hugo 😄
Show threadChuck SkodaNov 26, 2023

@hugo https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/greenland-shark.html

This blows my mind too. Imagining some sharks still swimming around who were out there circa the King James Bible.

How long do Greenland sharks live?

Scientists estimate the Greenland shark lives at least 250 years. They may live over 500 years.

Show threadK. P. BadertscherNov 27, 2023

@skoda @hugo

Damn. This part of the linked article is pretty sad.

“One study examined Greenland sharks that were bycatch in fishermen’s nets. The largest shark they found, a 5-meter female, was between 272 and 512 years old according to their estimates.”

She’s just chilling for hundreds of years, then some trawler operated by some upstart primate accidentally scoops her up. The more I think about it the angrier I get.

Show threadhazelnot Nov 26, 2023
@hugo Saturn's rings are newer than the trees? o.o
Show threadBrian BareschNov 26, 2023
@hazelnot @hugo Tree rings got there first 😁
Show threadPablo RrrrrrrNov 26, 2023
@hugo So, um, we’re gonna need a bigger calendar?
Show threadSheril KirshenbaumNov 26, 2023
@hugo Just wait til you hear about jellyfish… 🪼
Show threadHugo Slabbert ⚠️Nov 26, 2023
@Sheril the "immortal jellyfish" is pretty freaking amazing!
Show threadSheril KirshenbaumNov 26, 2023
@hugo one of my favs! (I used to be a marine biologist)
Show threadneville parkNov 26, 2023
@hugo *rolls eyes in horseshoe crab*  :P
Show threadHugo Slabbert ⚠️Nov 26, 2023
@nev 😂
Show threadJo HawkinsNov 30, 2023
@nev @hugo *rolls eyes in jellyfish* :p
Show threadeskilNov 26, 2023
@hugo finally some internet facts that make me feel young. Thanks!
Show threadFidgetNov 26, 2023
@hugo I got in a Thanksgiving argument with the “sharks are older than the North Star” fact.
Show threadHugo Slabbert ⚠️Nov 27, 2023
@fidget to be fair, on the surface my first reaction would be "bullsh*t" as well before actually looking into it!
Show threadMatt DavisNov 26, 2023
@hugo @siracusa
Show threadChrisNov 26, 2023
@hugo I don’t think there’s quite consensus on this one yet, but the current leading theory about the age of the inner solid iron core of the earth says it’s about 500 million years old. So just “a bit” older than sharks, apparently.
Show threadHugo Slabbert ⚠️Nov 27, 2023
@chrisvest is it? I thought the current scientific consensus was about 4.5 billion years.
Show threadChrisNov 27, 2023
@hugo 4.5 bn is the age of the earth itself, I think. The debate on the solid inner core is between two different methods of measuring. Upper bound is 4.2 bn by thermal model. Paleomagnetic points to 0.5 bn: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_inner_core#Paleomagnetic_evidence
Earth's inner core - Wikipedia

Show threadHugo Slabbert ⚠️Nov 27, 2023
@chrisvest neat, thanks!
Show threadLou KatzNov 26, 2023
@hugo Sharks predate trees? Wow. What did they eat before surfboards?