LAUREN
I'll kindly thank those living outside the U.S. who do not have any say in my rights to STFU when it comes to spreading chaotic messaging that will get a gop nominee the Presidency. It will either be Biden or A Republican pick from the Christofascist Cult. There are ZERO viable choices outside of this. You are not in touch with reality if you believe otherwise at this moment in history.
Nov 26, 2023 at 7:35amMona for iPhone
Show threadRaineer  🦆Nov 26, 2023

@noondlyt human rights is my only voting issue. Until all people are considered “people”, with equal rights, I don’t give a shit about the rest.

And that’s the reason I could never consider voting anyone but Biden.

Show threadLAURENNov 26, 2023
@raineer It is about the party that will do the least damage to humanity. That is the ONLY issue.
Show threadRaineer  🦆Nov 26, 2023
@noondlyt one thousand percent correct
Show threadFrancheskoNov 26, 2023
@noondlyt This. This all day and night, 365 times a year until the next election, and the election after that, until the Republican party has become a bit less fascist or ceased to exist.🤌
Show threadmariskus🏳️‍⚧️Nov 26, 2023
@noondlyt thank you it's important to remember that who is American president also effects people of different countries in different ways too. Me being Mexican, please for the love of everything that is dear to you, Trump cannot be president he's literally threatening to invade my country
Show threadDiamond JoyNov 26, 2023
@noondlyt
I'm tempted to plaster "Russian propaganda bot - you lose Vlad!" on every account playing this deadly GAME with our lives. Every single thing is at stake, and we're here for it.
Show threadC.S.StrowbridgeNov 26, 2023

@noondlyt

If someone says they are thinking about voting for a third party, ask them to name every member of congress that party has. ... It's none. Then ask them to name every state-level elected official they have. The Libertarian Party has 1 and the Green Party as none.

There isn't a third option, because no third party even tries to win at the state level. It's always President or Bust.

Show threadMatthewNov 26, 2023
@csstrowbridge @noondlyt
It's more about how our voting system favors 2 parties, for most of the country.
Show threadKFClintonNov 26, 2023

@mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt

There are only two parties and that is the case for my lifetime and I am now an ancient Dem.

The frauds from hell took enough of the vote to result in Bush and Trump in office.

It should have been Gore and Hillary - etc. They are full of crap spoilers, grifters and liars.

Show threadLaura J MixonNov 26, 2023
@KFClinton @mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt Yes, this. A multi-party system with first-past-the-post, winner-take-all voting =always= devolves into 2 parties, since a vote for any 3rd/4th/5th-party candidate =weakens= whichever of the top two you like better. It’s a mathematical necessity. Without ranked-choice voting or a parliamentary system, picking one of the top two and pressing that party to move in the direction you want is the only real way to effect change.
Show threadGrumbleNov 26, 2023

@KFClinton @mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt Did you forget Perot, who gave Clinton the win in '92?

Just because the billionaires have cornered the political market doesn't mean that I have to vote for their candidates.

It's the duty of prisoners to try to escape. :)

Show threadKFClintonNov 26, 2023

@grumble209 @mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt

You do not know much about the parties and who pushes the candidates of the Greens for starters.

Moscow came up with "Grow a spine and vote for Stein" and many other ads/slogans. It was uncovered by the massive investigations after the debacle.

The GOP was also doing as Putin wished, we have the evidence for years.

I am a proud Dem. We are the sane party.

Not a prisoner, a lifelong volunteer to grow the sane party.

Show threadGrumbleNov 26, 2023

@KFClinton @mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt Yup - Greens in the US are a scam, and I'm embarrassed to say I was snookered.

Not sure that's a compelling reason to vote for a warmonger like Biden. I'd hold my nose and vote for him if the Dems would pass some campaign finance legislation, though.

Otherwise I'll stick with "None of the Above".

Weird - the track record that the Dems proudly tout (New Deal, Social Security, Welfare, Voting Rights, Civil Rights) were all lefty policies that they'd never support these days. And yet the Dems seem to expect modern lefties to support them. Nope. Politics is quid pro quo.

Show threadKFClintonNov 26, 2023

@grumble209 @mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt

In decades of voting I have never missed, not once. I also knew the Greens in the 70s and they were full of shit even then.

Biden is NOT a war monger.

Campaign finance legislation was taken away by the SCOTUS and is an arbitrary point on the grand scale of things.

Know what isn't arbitrary? Voting for the best candidate to beat the orange idiot which will literally save democracy.

Shrugs.

Done.

Show threadC.S.StrowbridgeNov 26, 2023

@grumble209 @KFClinton @mrblissett @noondlyt

"Not sure that's a compelling reason to vote for a warmonger like Biden."

Warmonger?

By the way, Biden was the first president to go to a union strike. He's more progressive than people give him credit.

Show threadGrumbleNov 27, 2023

@csstrowbridge @KFClinton @mrblissett @noondlyt Has there ever been a military deployment that Biden hasn't supported?

Except his own, of course.

Show threadTom Bellin Dec 27, 2023
@grumble209 @csstrowbridge @KFClinton @mrblissett @noondlyt what nonsense
Show threadGrumbleDec 27, 2023

@tob @csstrowbridge @KFClinton @mrblissett @noondlyt The only one that comes to my mind is the $100M Biden is willing to pay Kenya to 'stabilize' Haiti so we don't have to send Marines.

But please, name some other places where Biden is not willing to deploy troops.

https://apnews.com/article/haiti-violence-united-nations-4acd3429d1bd84020efac538ba6c8746

US pledges $100M to back proposed Kenyan-led multinational force to Haiti

The Biden administration is pledging $100 million to support a proposed Kenyan-led multinational force to restore security to conflict-ravaged Haiti and urged other nations to make similar contributions. Secretary of State Antony Blinken announced Friday that the U.S. would provide logistics, including intelligence, airlift, communications and medical support to the mission. It would still need approval by the U.N. Security Council. Other than Kenya, which would head the operation, personnel from several Caribbean nations would also be deployed to the country. Blinken also urged the international community to pledge additional personnel as well as equipment, logistics, training and funding for the effort to be successful.

AP News
Show threadLAURENNov 26, 2023
@grumble209 @KFClinton @mrblissett @csstrowbridge The Dems are the only ones fighting for everything you just mentioned. How in the world do you think those all still exist? Your statement is factually false.
Show threadGrumbleNov 27, 2023

@noondlyt @KFClinton @mrblissett @csstrowbridge Some Dems are fighting hard. Some Dems are not fighting.

Our two parties, funded by a divided ruling class, prevent even wildly popular change (like campaign finance reform, plugging tax loopholes) from happening.

I see 2024 as between 3 decades of run-of-the-mill asshole billionaires and 4 decades of awful-bad asshole billionaires. Corporatism vs quasi-fascism, if you like. I hate both, and I'd rather see the wheels come off the system than keep it limping along and not just passively postponing reform, but actively working against reform.

Because once the wheels come off, we *might *have a chance to fix the obsolete things in the Constitution (like the Electoral College and FPTP). As long as we're limping along, nothing meaningful will change for the better. Or it could get even worse. But I trust Americans.

But, I'll hold my nose and vote Blue if the Dems reform something. Because politics is quid pro quo.

Show threadLAURENNov 27, 2023
@grumble209 @KFClinton @mrblissett @csstrowbridge I agree.
Show threadC.S.StrowbridgeNov 27, 2023

@grumble209 @noondlyt @KFClinton @mrblissett

"Because once the wheels come off..."

We don't get to vote again and LGBTQ+ people will be rounded up in concentration camps, along with anyone who isn't white and Christian.

Oh, also the climate will collapse faster.

Show threadKFClintonNov 27, 2023

@csstrowbridge @grumble209 @noondlyt @mrblissett

His argument is why everyone should vote for Biden and a Dem majority in both houses of congress.

By voting 3P and therefore voting for TFG, he is promoting the exact thing he claims to protest.

Either he is a lightweight thinker or he is is a disruption agent.

I had him muted, but will block since the last thing we need is those who make demands of Dems when the Dems do not even have control.

He does like to grumble. Apt name.

Show threadGrumbleNov 27, 2023
@csstrowbridge @noondlyt @KFClinton @mrblissett Only if you let them be rounded up.
Show threadC.S.StrowbridgeNov 27, 2023

@grumble209 @noondlyt @KFClinton @mrblissett

If the wheels come off society, you won't have a choice.

Fucking move somewhere where they don't have a functioning government and see how well things work out for you.

Show threadGrumbleNov 27, 2023

@csstrowbridge @noondlyt @KFClinton @mrblissett Is that what you call the US government? Functioning?

Functioning for whom?

Empirically, the US government functions for the donors and the lobbyists.
Empirically, the rest of us have no effect on our government. (Gilens and Page, *Testing Theories of American Politics*, 2014)

This isn't democracy - this is representative plutocracy.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but a lot of what drives the GOP voters is frustration with the donor / lobbyist situation. "Drain the swamp," they say.

I'm asking for the Dems to implement policy that's wildly popular with the US population, and I get pushback from loyal Dems. What *demos *does the DNC represent, anyway?

Show threadRoger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔Dec 27, 2023

@grumble209 @csstrowbridge @noondlyt @KFClinton @mrblissett

"Functioning for whom?"

Functioning for ME.

Obamacare completely saved my ass (our health insurance was stuck in a pre-existing-condition death spiral pre 2008)
My autistic son gets a stipend from Social Security and help from IDEA and other programs. We have functioning public schools that aren't run by religious fanatics. We have highways, transit systems, a working power grid, internet. And SO much else...

In other news Ukraine has continued to survive and NATO has held together in no small part due to Biden's skill at diplomacy. We are not at war with Iran (the way Bolton & friends wanted). I could go on....

Show threadGrumbleDec 27, 2023

@wrog @csstrowbridge @noondlyt @KFClinton @mrblissett Yup - the 1% have given the rest of us a reasonable lower-western standard of living.

As for the public schools, power grid, Internet, and public transit... well, most Americans don't travel to Europe or Asia anyway.

Biden is doing a great job prolonging every conflict at hand - Israel, Iraq (again, but only Iranians), Ukraine, and now Yemen. Buy your Raytheon stock now, bros; to the moon. As for NATO... best not to think too much about Turkey and Russia, right? And Turkey and the Kurds. And Turkey and Syria.

Domestically, have we had any signature Biden legislative wins? How about something hugely popular with all of America, like campaign finance reform?

As scary as the differences are between the Dems and the GOP, what worries me most is what they agree on.

Show threadRoger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔Dec 27, 2023

@csstrowbridge @grumble209 @noondlyt @KFClinton @mrblissett

Also please learn some actual history. Revolutions pretty much *never* come out the way anyone wants because once the fighting starts, it's up to whoever has the most guns or the best military tactics or who gets the best supply line from foreign powers. The French ended up with Napoleon. The Spanish ended up with Franco. The Russians ended up with Lenin.

It could even be argued the American revolution went sideways -- who knows how things might have been gone if the property/slave-owners hadn't pulled off their coup in 1787?

Show threadGrumbleDec 27, 2023

@wrog @csstrowbridge @noondlyt @KFClinton @mrblissett Yeah - revolutions are a huge crap shoot.

I hope the current power structure reflects on that and voluntarily accepts a "New Deal" like compromise before shit gets nasty.

"Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent revolution inevitable" - some Democrat.

Show threadKFClintonNov 26, 2023

@grumble209 @mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt

No, I always knew that was not what happened. I was a volunteer on the Clinton campaign.

Show threadGrumbleNov 26, 2023

@KFClinton @mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt I stand corrected. Clinton took 3rd in several counties in Idaho, including where I lived at the time.

In fact, Clinton almost took 4th in Franklin County.

Show threadTom Bellin Dec 27, 2023

@KFClinton @grumble209 @mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt the bigger point is that perot didn't do any ground work. He didn't try to get anyone but himself elected. And so, even though he got a huge chunk of the vote, his movement ended right there.

If he had spent a modicum of effort on building up local candidates, America might well have gotten a viable 3rd party out of that election.

Show threadGrumbleDec 27, 2023

@tob @KFClinton @mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt I agree. But I don't believe that Ross Perot wanted to either develop a viable 3rd party that would outlive him, or wanted to define a political philosophy that would attract followers.

I think Matthew is right - although our Constitution doesn't talk about political parties, the voting laws we've got are tailored to divide up power between two antagonistic groups. And that kind of concentration of power is a sweet juicy incubator for corruption of candidates and donors.

I honestly don't know how the US can unfuck itself from the concentrated power of the Dems and the GOP. But I have hope that other people do have workable ideas.

What makes me sad is that in spite of widespread dissatisfaction with our money-based system, politicians pretend that it's OK, and people go along with the farce.

Show threadRoger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔Dec 27, 2023

@grumble209 @KFClinton @mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt

".... Perot, who gave Clinton the win in '92?..."

This is a myth. Exit polling at the time showed that Perot took equally from both parties and Clinton would have won a two-way race.

If anything, Perot screwed things up so that Rs were able to use the "Clinton never won a majority" line, which made life more difficult later.

Show threadGrumbleDec 27, 2023

@wrog @KFClinton @mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt Cool - myth busted. I stand corrected.

But what do you mean by the "Clinton never won a majority" line? What problem is caused by failing to get over 50% of the popular vote?

Show threadRoger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔Dec 27, 2023

@grumble209 @KFClinton @mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt

The problem with winning with <50% in 3-way race is the legitimacy of the winner can always be called into question; it will never be known for certain who would have won the 2-way (exit polling is not an election). Nor did it help that it was never entirely clear what Perot voters wanted or what the Reform Party actually stood for -- all indications are that Perot's own motivation was mainly a personal vendetta against GHWB and he didn't think the Democrats could win, so you could make pretty much any case you wanted for who he was actually drawing from (and in the end the Party fell apart when he stopped running, so it was mainly his personality that was holding it together)

Show threadRoger Crew✅❌☑🗸❎✖✓✔Dec 27, 2023

@grumble209 @KFClinton @mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt

Now, to be fair, the Republicans probably would have come up with some other talking point had Clinton won a 2-way race

never mind that they immediately and completely forgot about this legitimacy "problem" the moment GWB got in on a SCOTUS decision in 2000 and then started governing as if he had this huge mandate.

Show threadGrumbleDec 28, 2023

@wrog @KFClinton @mrblissett @csstrowbridge @noondlyt Given that there's no Constitutional need to even have the same presidential candidates in all of the states, there's literally no reason to expect a > 50% popular majority for a president. I suppose it's nice, but not getting it is fairly meaningless in our system.

I'm not defending our system - it's old and fucked and almost every country in the world passed on it when they designed their systems. I think both parties keep it around because it's known and easy to game.

Show threadLAURENNov 26, 2023
@mrblissett @csstrowbridge The system is broken and almost non functional but it is the only tool, a dull spear, we have left right now to prevent an Authoritarian State.
Show threadKit Rhett AultmanNov 27, 2023
@csstrowbridge @noondlyt Yep! And that's because they're low-grade scams.
Show threadKFClintonNov 26, 2023

@noondlyt

Rick Wilson and other Never-Trumpers have discussed the GOP paying third party candidates to run.

They paid the Green grifters etc. to run and take away a few percent nationally from the Dems.

It has been discussed in several former GOP strategist books and interviews.

They are spoilers, always were the party of dumbasses who are gullible, end of story,

Show threadDavid BarkinNov 26, 2023

@noondlyt

Biden will be beaten by ANY other Republican then Trump. And he might lose to Trump.

Is there a Law that the Democrats MUST nominate Biden, who is Republican Light?

Two thirds or Americans want the government to do MORE to fight Climate Change. Biden is doing everything he can to accelerate it, just like Trump.

Show threadLAURENNov 26, 2023
@Ulzana SMH. You don't get it. You don't get that no other issue is relevant if we go into an authoritarian state. No one cares about climate crisis at this moment in time, and it is evident by the fact that climatologists are screaming at the top of their lungs and no one is paying them attention.
Show threadDavid BarkinNov 26, 2023

@noondlyt

Did I say I wouldn't vote for Biden over Trump?

No, I did not. I said we should nominate someone Other than Biden BECAUSE BIDEN WILL LOSE.

Biden has been an awful President and the only people who call him Great are FANATICS, who don't even understand why his approval his slow low.

They blame the Media instead of reality. Never in American History have Americans been more in debt than today.

But go ahead provide me a LYING list of his accomplishments.

Show threadDavid BarkinNov 26, 2023

@noondlyt

You people are something else. You worship a Republican...

"If you run a Republican against a Republican the real Republican will win every time"

Harry Truman

Show threadLAURENNov 26, 2023
@Ulzana "You people" is insulting AF.
Show threadDavid BarkinNov 26, 2023

@noondlyt

""'You people" is insulting AF."

I insult everyone who works for a Republican victory.

Show threadLAURENNov 26, 2023
@Ulzana Not working for a Republican victory so go fuck yourself
Show threadLAURENNov 26, 2023
@Ulzana You don't get it. I am not pro Biden. I am pro-democracy and my rights. Go find someone else who wants to have an irrelevant discussion with you.
Show threadDavid BarkinNov 26, 2023

@noondlyt

There is NO REASON WE CAN'T NOMINATE SOMEONE ELSE AND WIN! BECAUSE BIDEN WILL LOSE!

Show threadLAURENNov 26, 2023
@Ulzana Citizens United is why we can't nominate someone else and win. Duh.
Show threadKevin Karhan Nov 27, 2023
@noondlyt Sadly choosing the "lesser evil" is the only option and in fact it's pretty much only going to be #Biden cuz we'd otherwise see the Orange Tyrant or a sockpuppet of his go full Reichstag Fire on the USA...
Show threadLAURENNov 27, 2023
@kkarhan We are at that moment distilled down to requiring a single "Yes" or "No" response.
Show threadKevin Karhan Nov 27, 2023
@noondlyt yes, and as of now I do hope a lot people are aware of the seriousness of the situation!
Show threadmoved servers ➡ @[email protected]Dec 11, 2023
@kkarhan @noondlyt
If there are indications that Biden is behind RFK in swing states would that affect your decision? At the moment that's not true, he's still about 10-15 points ahead of RFK, but it's also looking like Biden may not be a viable candidate in the swing states he needs to win so I'm really at a loss. saying this as someone who lives in the US and can't stand RFK but also has little faith at this moment that Biden can win. really wish we'd had a primary