YouTube Says New 5-Second Video Load Delay Is Supposed to Punish Ad Blockers, Not Firefox Users

Firefox users are reporting an 'artificial' load time on YouTube videos. YouTube says it's part of a plan to make people who use adblockers "experience suboptimal viewing, regardless of the browser they are using."

https://www.404media.co/youtube-says-new-5-second-video-load-delay-is-supposed-to-punish-ad-blockers-not-firefox-users/

YouTube Says New 5-Second Video Load Delay Is Supposed to Punish Ad Blockers, Not Firefox Users

Firefox users are reporting an 'artificial' load time on YouTube videos. YouTube says it's part of a plan to make people who use adblockers "experience suboptimal viewing, regardless of the browser they are using."

404 Media
Can we stop panicing every 5 seconds? Give adblockers 1-10 days and they will fix it. We have been through this a bunch of times.

Yeah, as long as it is a big enough problem on the internet, you will have at least one nerd trying to find a way to circumvent it.

Give them time.

The nerds are cooking, let them cook
I think it’s less panicking and more informational. The enshittification of Google has commenced and this is just documentation.
I experience suboptimal viewing by having to watch ads. If I had to pick one or the other, I know which one I prefer.

suboptimal viewing [of the ads]

It’s crazy that Google thinks people would rather watch 15 seconds of ads than 5 seconds of nothing.

What’s even crazier, for some people, actually a lot of people, they are right. Some people can’t be left alone with silence for that long.

Not me, but they are out there.

I’d rather waste 5 second looking at black than any ad ever

Yeah haha… They really think we would hat it if there is not a ear busting sound which tells you to buy sth for at least 5 sec.

The 5s black screen is automatically becoming a video

Commercial breaks were when you muted the television and had about two minutes to go to the kitchen or use the bathroom. Even if it’s forced, I’m not watching them.
Well, ads are usually quite a bit longer… So I really don’t see what they would gain from that. Unless they lied, which is of course possible if not likely.
That snippet of code is browser agnostic, which means you have the same problem on chrome lol
not to worry, chrome will soon not have good adblockers, and those that remain will be crippled and have filter lists that must be distributed with the addon via our 'store'--meaning we can (and will at some point) shut down any filter updates that block our shit.
Fair enough. I stopped using chrome a looong time ago so no problem anyway

It seemed to be just a 5 second wait.

The weird part is that changing user agent to chrome seems to avoid it.

It’s not weird. It’s asshole design.
From what I understand from the articles about this, it was found that different JavaScript code (without any delay added) was served in the HTTP response if Firefox was spoofed to look like the request came from Chrome, so it seems the issue only occurs on non-chrome browsers.
That is not correct. The surrounding code gives some more context: h=document.cr... | Hacker News

I block ads and havent noticed that
I did notice on ublock. Weird black screen for a few seconds and then content loads.
I think Google underestimates how much I hate ads. I’ll gladly take the black screen, thank you.
i remember back when hulu was first starting.. free with ads. at times all you got was a black screen with a message about adblockers instead of the ads, and for the same length, which was still better than having them.
I saw a clip of it happening on Safari.
I haven’t had that issue. I’ve heard that disabling adblockers resolves it. But people have said that spoofing their user agent to chrome also magically resolves it…
A mass migration to a federated YouTube alternative couldn’t come sooner.
I keep seeing people throw this idea out there but I have yet to have received a reasonable answer to a simple question: How would content creators get paid on a federated video platform?

@I_Comment_On_EVERYTHING @CowsLookLikeMaps
Patreon?

Yes, content providers make money on YouTube, but considering that Google makes more than then they do as a percentage certainly begs for some other solution.

I have a bit over 60 YouTubers I’m subscribed to on YouTube. Am I supposed to pay $60+ every month to have access to them? The cheapest patreon I’ve ever seen was for $1 and that wasn’t even for full access just a “buy me coffee, thanks” tier.

What about discoverability, how am I supposed to randomly stumble across niche content creators that don’t have a huge following?

Not saying it isn’t possible I just can’t seem to wrap my head around how it would work.

@I_Comment_On_EVERYTHING
To be honest, I don't know either.

But it sounds like you want to continue to use the YouTube services and algorithm. Which is fine, but can't exist without someone tracking everything you do.

The other big question is who’s paying for the infrastructure? If payments are done through a third party like Patreon, the host can’t take a cut. Serving lemmy text and image content from a home server is one thing. Being a 4k streaming host is an entirely different business. Way more computing load and bandwidth, which means higher hosting costs.

Ideally, it would be a p2p protocol where the primary hoster is either the content creator directly, or a service paid by the content creator.

I believe there are many podcasts that work that way (well.. minus the p2p part).

Instances could probably find ways to be ad supported or creators could do 3p sponsorships or ads in videos. Not everyone has to chip in to everything they subscribe to. It’s still impossibly hard compared to youtube though.

@I_Comment_On_EVERYTHING
I will also say that I agree with you 100%. So, I am supposed to subscribe to the New York Times, Washington Post, Forbes, Netflix, Prime, any number of podcasts, and so on.

Not only do I not have that much money, but I don't have that level of organization to keep track of all of them.

I would agree that content delivery/payment is completely broken right now.

I think Nebula aims to solve that.
Patreon should offer a donation bank. Donate $10 a month. Then you can add patreons to the bank and the ten gets split equally between them?
That will never work. It simply doesn’t work at scale like that, and it’s very confusing for the non technical. Creators shouldn’t have to worry about anything except uploading and moderating.
I wonder how that would work. My understanding is running a video site is extremely expensive. Transcoding compute, massive amount of storage, etc. Sure, a few small ones could exist, but enough to replace even a fraction of YouTube’s userbase? I just don’t see how the math works out. I mean, text-based Lemmy and Kbin had slowdowns/outages for months with just tens of thousand of users…
I highly recommend just downloading any videos you want to watch. Some guy made an extensions for firefox on linux that lets you click a button and it just automatically downloads and opens that video in mpv player. You can also use tube archivist, yt dlp, etc to auto download your subscriptions.
What is the extension called?

Looks like there are several, most of which require extra binaries.

github.com/Baldomo/open-in-mpv

addons.mozilla.org/…/minimalist-open-in-mpv/

GitHub - Baldomo/open-in-mpv: Simple web extension to open videos in mpv

Simple web extension to open videos in mpv. Contribute to Baldomo/open-in-mpv development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub
I just moved to using Freetube.
Jesus Christ, why can’t they just leave it alone. At this point they are grasping at straws. More likely, people will stop using YouTube at all than turning off adblockers or switching browsers.
Considering those are people who only cost them bandwidth and provide nothing in return, that might actually be a net positive for their bottom line.

'Those people' are still incredibly valuable for YouTube.

They watch content, and interact with creators which increases the health of the community and draws in more viewers - some of whom will watch ads.

They choose to spend their time on YouTube, increasing the chances they share videos, talk about videos, and otherwise increase the cultural mindshare of the platform.

Lastly, by removing themselves from the advertising pool, they boost the engagement rates on the ads themselves. This allows YouTube to charge more to serve ads.

Forcing everyone who currently uses an adblocker to watch ads wouldn't actually help YouTube make more money, it would just piss off advertisers as they would be paying to showore ads to an unengaged audience that wouldn't interact with those ads.

You’re relying on a lot of assumptions, which even if true, still doesn’t mean that the math works out in a way that means allowing ad-blocking users makes sense.

Netflix doesn’t need a “healthy community” for people to use the platform. Shows do perfectly fine letting all the talking happen on other social media.

AND you’re assuming youtube wants to continue the already unsustainable ad-based model, which with how hard they push premium, definitely isn’t the case.

AND you’re assuming youtube wants to continue the already unsustainable ad-based model at all

No, I was explaining how people who do not watch ads are still valuable to YouTube today. It doesn't matter if they want to move away from serving ads in the future or not, the points above are still valid.

Netflix is actually a great parallel. They need people to watch the shows and buzz about them to draw in more subscribers. YouTube is the same way, they need people sharing videos and funny comments to scrape attention away from other bits of entertainment.

Further, this isn't a binary outcome. Each time YouTube makes it a little harder to block ads, a slice of people who don't want to put in the effort will start watching them. It is trivial, on the software side, to fully block a video from playing if the ad is not served. To date, they have not done that, and I sincerely doubt they ever will - because ad-free viewers are still valuable.

Yes, they would prefer if everyone watched ads. But they would still prefer ad-free viewers to watch YouTube and add to the network effect than to spend their time elsewhere.

But they would still prefer ad-free viewers to watch YouTube and add to the network effect than to spend their time elsewhere.

This claim opposite to their actual current behavior. This isn’t a case where they made their ad-blocking slightly more effective, they added it to the terms of service. They changed their stance legally. To use ad-blocking on yt, is now legally the same as using cheats in competitive games.

Blocking ad-blocking is not “trivial” from the software side, the arms race has made the work of both sides incredibly complex in some cases. It’s “trivial” to block the video if the ad isn’t served just as it is “trivial” to have the ad-blocker pretend to watch it if that’s the requirement.

It’s fairly clear to me, that YT has decided that whatever losses this incurs, outweighs the benefits. And I tend to agree. YT’s business model never made sense, not after they began allowing basically infinite uploads.

YT doesn’t charge for all the things that actually cost it money, no-one pays them to store the content no-one watches from ten years ago, or even six months ago. The rate at which their expenses grow is not coupled to the rate at which they charge. In fact, their income in constant, while their expenses have the potential to be exponential.

Compare that to Netflix, which has a fixed catalogue that they curate, and doesn’t grow out of the blue as users throw more at their servers to ingest.

Even targeted ads stop working once an individual gets used to them, ad-based revenue only works for a while, per customer. It only works long-term an a subset of people, which isn’t lucrative, nor ethical. That modern platforms are disproportionately subsidized by it’s most gullible users is a disgusting reality. That makes data-mining and targeted advertising a huge business, but insufficient for running something like YT. Streaming doesn’t do “economies of scale” the way physical products do, servers and bandwidth don’t magically become cheaper the more you buy. In fact in recent years the opposite has often been true.

YT will never make enough with ads. The math simply doesn’t work out. I am very skeptical that it makes sense for YT to “allow” ad-blocking to “spread the message” of their product. If anything, to become solvent, YT needs to deliberately downsize their audience.

To grow and form a network, can be left to the communities that form around channels.

In other words (as I agree with you): they don’t generate direct profit for YouTube, but they generate value, or the long-term ability to generate profit.
This comment is the equivalent of some guy telling you that you’ll be paid in exposure and that the exposure is going to be worth way more than money in the long run, just trust me bro.

Yes, probably. But there are alternatives to circumvent their current restrictions and I think there will always be. If you add those methods, maybe the balance goes the other way around. For example, I’d go the Freetube way (invidious) instead. If they keep investing on preventing me to use Invidious, is it worth it for them? We will see.

If bandwidth was the problem, then they should allow Android systems to switch from video to audio-only when the screen is off or they could limit the resolution and fps to those using adblockers, without denying access to view. People using Firefox+uBlock already made a choice to not be their “clients”. At this point they should just count their blessings, which are still a lot, and let Firefox+uBlock users be or just close their pitty platform to their users as Facebook does. It’s here where their dilemma lives, are they gonna be another Facebook?

More likely, people will stop using YouTube at all

Hahaha, no.

I meant people who use Firefox+uBlock, not just any people.
I use Firefox+uBO, and I would stop using it, but I’m not convinced that most users would. Too many people fear the slightest bit inconvenience or change.

I’m just gonna use whatever workaround someone develops for it. It’ll always be possible to spoof whatever bullshit they require, except:

I want to force them to actually make YouTube a paid service to get rid of “freeloaders”. That’s the only way to actually “solve” this for YouTube.

And when they do this, it’ll collapse, and I, along with many others, will be forced to stop using it. And that’s when real change will happen, because then the masses will be behind it.

If you actually stop using it, then YouTube won, in my opinion. They got rid of the freeloaders but can keep their shitty business model.

I’ve thought about this before. If YouTube collapsed, it would be a good thing because someone would develop something to fill the void, or we’d all start using Peertube or something
That’s okay, my argument is not against this, it’s against the “hahaha” part, as if it was a ridiculous idea to stop using YouTube if you already are trying so hard to avoid the inconveniences of their current ad system.
That doesn’t change my reaction one bit.
I don’t want to change your reaction, that’s in the past anyway. You do you, I guess.