Philip N CohenNov 14, 2023
This from Yossi Klein Halevi is so depressing. Ezra Klein picked him to represent the reasonable Israeli, and he considers the possibility of a minority Jewish state, even if peacefully attained, equivalent to the mass murder of Jews. I don't doubt most Israelis agree, but it means no peace ever.
#israel #palestine https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/10/podcasts/transcript-ezra-klein-interviews-yossi-klein-halevi.html
Transcript: Ezra Klein Interviews Yossi Klein Halevi

The Nov. 10, 2023, episode of “The Ezra Klein Show.”

The New York Times
Show threadPhilip N Cohen
Is there any other ethnic group that can only ever continue its existence on earth by having an ethnic majority state? It is either a 19th century conception of nationalism, or an eternal uniqueness of Jews. I don't accept either.
Nov 14, 2023 at 3:03pmIvory for iOS
Show threadRich Stein (he/him)Nov 14, 2023
@philipncohen 78+ yrs since end of Holocaust, 75+ yrs since founding of Israel (antidote) — non-linear timeline of peace efforts w/ neighboring countries ever since. There are plenty of countries w/ ethnic majority pops. Whether that is right or not, it's today's world. Maybe this outbreak of violence yields anothr Sadat-Begin moment (frm grief, exhaustion frm war... who knows...) Maybe Abraham Accord countries play a role. Maybe we — you, me — don't live to see it. Peace may still happen.
Show threadRich Stein (he/him)Nov 14, 2023
@philipncohen I think as intractable as the problem may seem, it still needs to be thought about with efforts to solve/resolve. Otherwise no peace ever, for sure.
Show threadAlonNov 14, 2023
@philipncohen The issue is that the clear demands of the Palestinians are not at all "a state with equal status and protection for the Jews." Fatah has been vacillating on this but "one secular state" was always meant to be an Arab and not a binational state; Hamas is clear that it has no such interest. It's not like the ANC's demand for an egalitarian state going back to its 1950s charter, or even Jabotinsky's demand in the Iron Wall article that the Zionist state have equal rights for Arabs.
Show threadoatmealNov 15, 2023

@Alon that’s was meant to be possible only after a “test” period which will show they gave up any national aspirations, as far as I recall.

Cc @philipncohen

Show threadAlonNov 15, 2023
@oatmeal @philipncohen In the Iron Wall? It was for after the Jewish state was founded. Jabotinsky died in 1940 so figuring out what he would have thought about 1948-present is fanfic, but the guy who actually led the movement afterward, the terrorist and ethnic cleanser Menachem Begin, opposed Ben Gurion's policy of military rule over the Arab citizens who remained in Israel and demanded equal citizenship (achieved 1966, a few months before the Occupation began).
Show threadoatmealNov 15, 2023
@Alon yes … I’ve posted a quote recently in English on my feed