TokenBoomerPalestinians plead ‘stop the bombs’ at UN meeting but Israel insists Hamas must be ‘obliterated’
Resol van LemmyHamas hides in civilian places. In return, Israel bombs said civilian places, killing everyone but mostly uninvolved innocent folks, most of those are children. And yet when they try to leave, Hamas won’t let them, and Israel bombs the exit anyway.
I feel like these two guys are secretly allied to commit genocide or something.
And yes, I’m waiting for the downvotes to come in. I don’t even care anymore. Just press the button.
I wonder if Hamas would exist if Israel treated the Palestinians well, giving them aid, food, water and the promise of a brighter future… including sovereignty of their borders.
Hamas might not exist, but unless you can travel back in time, that doesn’t answer the question what to do about Hamas today.
Hamas is a terror organization, they’ve been in power in the Gaza strip for the last 17 years, they terrorize the Palestinian population in Gaza, and they desperately need the conflict to stay alive so they don’t lose relevance.
As things are today, treating the Palestinians well, giving them aid, food, water and the promise of a brighter future is a direct threat to Hamas. That’s absolutely not to say that those things shouldn’t be done - it’s just to say that these things pose a direct threat to Hamas’s position of power in Gaza. That’s why Hamas reroutes international help and keeps it from reaching the Palestinian population, why they stage terrorist attacks against Israel, why they torture and murder “collaborators,” why they place their infrastructure in schools and mosques and hospitals, why they use Palestinians as human shields.
So lacking the option of traveling back in time and preventing the creation of Hamas, what should be done in a world where Hamas exists, has been in power for many years, sand has no intention of ever ceasing its terrorism?
Hamas today could be a thing of the past, or as close to irrelevant as possible, if Israel would put in the effort to help Palestinians. Maybe help Palestinians realize that they could have a better chance with Israel than Hamas and that peace is possible.
This would take Israel being the “bigger man” to use a turn of phrase, but every chance they’re presented with just like right now, they instead choose Zionism and indiscriminately murder civilians.
if Israel would put in the effort to help Palestinians
That’s sounds good.
What would that look like?
As a reference: from 2014 to 2020, the UN spent $4.5 billion in Gaza. NGOs have poured in hundreds of millions, have opened schools, have financed hospitals, have distributed aid. USAID has spent billions of dollars, the European Union spent hundreds of millions of Euros just to put in reliable water infrastructure. Just recently, Israel agreed to open the borders to Gaza so a number of Palestinians could work in Israel and live in Gaza.
But Hamas has been intercepting foreign aid, has seized donated supplies, has interfered with aid workers, has used schools and hospitals financed by the UN and NGOs as terrorist headquarters, as weapons caches, as launching sites for missiles, as prisons and torture sites to hold, torture and murder opponents.
So what, specifically, would you suggest?
It seems that the only solution to the problem is to kill innocent men, women, and children!
Gotta violently kill a family of twenty so we can take out one or two hidden Hamas fighters!
I want to make this very clear, the hatred that Israel is exhibiting to the Palestinians, is exactly the same as the hatred that Hitler exhibited towards their people during WWII. Difference is, everybody is cheering on the Nazis this time.
So you’re assuming that asking for a qualified answer about what should be done to “help the Palestinians” is the equivalent of “cheering on the Nazis?”
You asked a rhetorical question. I also did not say you cheered on the Nazi’s or anything of the sort.
See, that’s the problem, though: you’re already presuming that people who don’t simply go along cheering facile, generic solutions like “why don’t the Israelis just help the Palestinians” - as if things were that easy and as if that thought just had never occurred to a single person in the past 70 years of murderous conflict - must be insincere.
So for the record: no, I’m being sincere. Bombing innocent civilians in Gaza is very obviously objectionable, and indiscriminate bombing is a war crime.
At the same time, I can acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist organization which just committed the largest terrorist attack in the history of Israel, committing unspeakable atrocities and murdering hundreds and hundreds of civilians in Israel.
So with that premise established: what would be some realistic ways for Israel to help Palestinians in a way that would make Hamas go away and end that particular threat for Israel. Because that’s the proposition: that the terrorist threat from Hamas could be ended if Israel only helped the Palestinians instead of bombing them, correct?
Go on reddit or facebook and you’ll see exactly what I am talking about.
Explain to me exactly how bombing and killing innocent civilians is going to stop a terrorist group? You kill a shit ton of innocent people to take out a few of the bad guys. You’re not understanding that the point isn’t about helping the Palestinians, it’s about not fucking recklessly killing them to stop terrorists.
It honestly sounds to me like IDS are terrorists themselves, is that not what terrorists do? To be a terrorist is to strike terror into a civilian populous, and that is exactly what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Blowing up fucking schools, hospitals, and homes is not how you stop a terrorist group, it’s how you become one.
I find it absolutely absurd that western countries could do this today and would be heavily criticized, but Israel gets a pass because “it’s god’s land”. Christianity (the religion that many americans falsely claim to follow) does not give two shits about Israel or Jerusalem, that is the JEWS land, not Christian’s land.
This is what happens when you let religion off of a leash, needless bloodshed and suffering. Christians did the same to Jews and Muslims during the crusades, this is a situation that is no different today, that’s exactly what a Jihad is, a " holy war".
You wrote a lot of things, but I still don’t see an answer to the question there.
Is that because you don’t have an answer?
You’re asking a question that is totally unrelated to the topic. It almost feels like you don’t actually understand how conversations work, I’m being genuine here.
The situation at hand right here, right now, is not about helping the Palestinians, it is about not killing them. Once that hurdle is crossed, then we can figure out how to help them.
I fail to see the point in trying to help them if you are actively blowing them up to stop a terrorist organization, you should do that before you do anything else, it’s literally a prerequisite.
You are asking a question that is totally unrelated to the topic.
Because you wrote a post that was totally unrelated to my question, and totally unrelated to the entire conversation before it.
The entire penises of the conversation was that Hamas might not even exist today if Israel had only chosen to help the Palestinians.
If your entire reply to that topic can be summed up as “well, too late for that,” then I agree with you.
I fail to see the point in trying to help them if you are actively blowing them up to stop a terrorist organization, you should do that before you do anything else, it’s literally a prerequisite.
How do you feel that Israel should have reacted to the 10/7 attacks?
I’m going to ignore the first part because once again, your question is entirely unrelated to the topic.
How do you feel that Israel should have reacted to the 10/7 attacks?
Uh, by not blowing up civilians homes? Doing a better job at controlling their borders? Partner with the dozens of countries you are allied with? Yes, you are not going to stop every attack, but why retaliate to a terrorist attack by attacking a country’s civilians who do not even have anything to do with the terrorists?
Put yourself in the Palestinian’s shoes, say your country has a terrorist group that attacks another country, that country retaliates, they proceed to blow up your fucking house with your whole family in it, because there were terrorists who forced your family to allow them to quarter at the threat of death, how would you feel about that?
If you tell me that you somehow cannot sympathize with that, there is something fundamentally wrong with you as a person.
So your tangible answers are:
- Doing a better job at controlling their borders.
- Partner with the dozens of countries you are allied with.
That’s your answer of how a nation should respond to a terrorist attack that killed 1,400 civilians, where the attached committed the most inhumane, vile atrocities?
Put yourself in the Israeli civilians’ shoes, say 1,400 of your fellow citizen - men, women, children, babies - have just been murdered by a terrorist organization that rules an adjacent territory in the most gruesome way: decapitated, shot, bludgeoned, burned to death. How would you feel about that?
And how would you feel about it if then somebody told you "well, why don’t you just control the borders a little bit better and partner with your allies?’
I’ll tell you exactly how I’d feel about that, I’d feel that you shouldn’t kill innocent people from the countries that the terrorists hail from in response, because I’m not a shitty human being. Unfortunately I don’t think I can say the same for you in good conscience.
You have avoided the main topic to try and make a point that is still unrelated to the topic at hand. We are not talking about helping Palestinians. I don’t know how you still don’t get it. You’re intentionally ignoring it and it is really starting to piss me off.
You think that bombing hospitals, schools, and homes is somehow helping the Palestinians, that is all I’ve gathered from you. If you genuinely think this, you’re insane. Those are war crimes, you cannot kill noncombatants even if it means taking out a few enemies. If you needed help with receiving food and clean water, how is someone killing you going to help with that?
Israel has shown that it does not care about the rules of conflict or setting a rule of peace and prosperity, they are no different than any of the other blood hungry countries like Russia and the US. If they are not tried for the crimes they have committed against Palestine, that should tell you everything you need to know about the world’s governments.
And no, those are not all of the answers, but they are a START. If need be, martial law can be enforced until the situation is under control, there are measures that can be taken for situations like this. There are 193 countries currently in the UN, you mean to tell me not a single one can lift a finger to help out with this situation?
I’ll tell you exactly how I’d feel about that, I’d feel that you shouldn’t kill innocent people from the countries that the terrorists hail from in response, because I’m not a shitty human being.
“I think this shouldn’t be done” is a non-answer.
You have avoided the main topic to try and make a point that is still unrelated to the topic at hand. We are not talking about helping Palestinians. I don’t know how you still don’t get it. You’re intentionally ignoring it and it is really starting to piss me off.
You’re the one who has made exactly zero suggestions about how to stop Hamas.
Have you lost even one single word about Hamas mass murdering civilians? Have you lost one single word about Hamas torturing people, beheading people, burning people alive?
No?
Why not?
Is that just acceptable to you? Are you just a shitty human being?
Or is that, to you, just something terrorists do, so we should ask, collectively, just shrug it off?
If you genuinely think this, you’re insane.
Why is stopping Hamas worth the lives of Palestinian children? I’d say it flat out isn’t and bombing the fuck out of Gaza was definitely not the right way to retaliate.
Unless maybe you actually think all Palestinians are Hamas. Seems to be a pretty common sentiment for shills these days