Steve Troughton-SmithOct 17, 2023
Being honest with myself, I'm not going to be building anything for visionOS until/unless I have a headset of my own, and the chance of me buying the €4000+ first-generation device is near-zero. I'm already burned out on visionOS just thinking about it over the past few months; at this point I don't plan on revisiting the SDK until after launch. I don't think anybody will miss my apps not being there for the first year or two, and that probably goes for most indie devs too
Show threadCraig HockenberryOct 17, 2023

@stroughtonsmith For me the big tell is when we can do development on the device. If it’s kneecapped like the iPad, it’s a nonstarter.

Success for me looks like something to replace a Mac, not an iPad.

Show threadSteve Troughton-Smith
@chockenberry but it is an iPad
Oct 17, 2023 at 9:28pmIvory for Mac
Show threadCraig HockenberryOct 17, 2023

@stroughtonsmith Right, but do they have the long term vision and guts to make it a Mac?

Time will tell.

Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithOct 17, 2023
@chockenberry I imagine we'll be asking ourselves the same thing in ten years, just like with iPad 😶
Show threadOwen 🇦🇺Oct 17, 2023
@stroughtonsmith @chockenberry Yep, I would have preferred visonOS to be a closer fork of macOS… I think that would have had greater potential. I fear that visonPro will constantly hit the same walls that iPad has, and that will make the product less useful for me. 😔
Show threadcharlesesmithOct 17, 2023
@vanitalo @stroughtonsmith @chockenberry Rant: basing it off of iPad isn't really the problem, the problem is that they still aren't solving problems that have been solved for 20+ years because of "ease of us" or "security." Security is valid, but they need to provide APIs that make more use-cases possible. With Mac, you used to just inject shit into memory, and then slowly APIs got built to deal with those things so they can be done safely. What sucks is they keep not addressing those...
Show threadcharlesesmithOct 17, 2023
@vanitalo @stroughtonsmith @chockenberry and not dealing with the real problem is that they sacrifice so much for ease-of-use. No sharp edges sounds great, except when you need to saw a log or slice some bread. "Just don't eat bread"/"we find our users don't eat bread" seems to be how modern Apple approaches these things. Yeah, of course they don't, because they can't. Mac approach was "users want to do this thing, lets solve it" iPad approach is "users are wrong."
Show threadcharlesesmithOct 17, 2023
@vanitalo @stroughtonsmith @chockenberry see also: https://www.macworld.com/article/2101369/overzealous-security-is-wrecking-the-mac-user-experience.html
Apple's mission to make the Mac safer is slowly destroying it

Overzealous security measures are ruining the simplicity of the macOS experience.

Macworld
Show threadDogzillaOct 17, 2023

@charlesesmith @vanitalo @stroughtonsmith @chockenberry I think the issue is that greater dev access == less secure platform. Comparing any of Apple’s OS to the competition uncovers a huge difference in the user experience.

Apple’s built a gated community with a strong HOA. The competition has built the Wild West. Turns out a big percentage of consumers *want* a gated community.

Show threadcharlesesmithOct 18, 2023
@Dogzilla @vanitalo @stroughtonsmith @chockenberry I don't think that's right though. I've been running Windows with my Apple stuff this entire time, and in practicality the security issues notorious in XP and previous are just not a thing anymore. I just setup a Windows 11 gaming PC, and I gotta say, it was a much nicer experience than setting up a new Mac. It's starting to be the case I choose Mac *in spite* of how it handles security, rather than in the past when it was because of it.
Show threadDogzillaOct 18, 2023

@charlesesmith @vanitalo @stroughtonsmith @chockenberry

I should have been more specific: I don't necessarily mean what we would call full-blown security issues. I mean more both the personal data collection and the display of advertising. That level of dev access changes the user experience, because there will always be some devs that abuse that access given a profit motive.

I believe keeping the walled garden approach is what allows Apple to provide the user experience it does.

Show threadSörenOct 18, 2023

@stroughtonsmith @chockenberry well, by the time it reached System 7, the iPad got color, a vibrant ecosystem of third-party extensions and hacks, and big markets like DTP. In just seven years!

Wait, that was the Mac.

Show threadKonrad KołakowskiOct 17, 2023

@chockenberry @stroughtonsmith I think that Apple simply want to eat a cake and still have it 🤷‍♂️

They want to sell you *all* of their "computers" - Macs, iPads and now Visions (?)

For this to work they have to cripple all of those products to some degree 🤔

#mac #ipad #VisionPro

Show threadSörenOct 18, 2023
@kkolakowski @chockenberry @stroughtonsmith if that’s their calculation, I’m not sure it has worked out, because entire classes of use cases are just too awkward on an iPad for devs to bother making an app and users to bother buying the hardware and software.
Show threadÓscar Morales VivóOct 18, 2023
@chockenberry @stroughtonsmith they wouldn’t have the long term vision and guts to make the Mac a Mac if they hadn’t inherited it from a different era in both computing and Apple as a company.
Show threadMilkyvrOct 18, 2023
@stroughtonsmith @chockenberry that's a very shortsighted framing...i mean Wow!
Show threadSteve Troughton-SmithOct 18, 2023
@milkyvr @chockenberry it's the same OS, same frameworks, same apps, same SDK, same design, same CPU. It's an iPad for your face — nothing wrong with that. It has many of the same benefits, and many of the same limitations
Show threadMetafrastisOct 18, 2023
@stroughtonsmith @chockenberry It is a 360 degree Studio Display Witz the iPad part not being deactivated. Not enough power to run Xcode but high enough resolution to mirror a Mac. If you think about it as dozens of Studio Displays all around you it suddenly seems quite affordable 🙂