Mastodawn

Jewish Voice for Peace statement on #Israel vs. #Hamas: "There is only one way to end violence: to address its root cause, 75 years of Israeli military occupation and apartheid. We must end U.S. complicity in this systemic oppression." https://www.commondreams.org/news/jvp-congress-gaza

'We Must Prevent Mass Atrocities and End This': US Jewish Group Calls on Congress to End Gaza Carnage

"There is only one way to end violence: to address its root cause, 75 years of Israeli military occupation and apartheid," said Jewish Voice for Peace. "We must end U.S. complicity in this systemic oppression."

Common Dreams

EarBuzz Oct 12, 2023

@BruceMirken The logical fallacy in this argument is in thinking that #Hamas wants peace. Olive branches have been proffered in the past and Saturday was the outcome. Saturday’s actions are not what peace-seeking groups do in the pursuit of peace. There is no excusing their actions. Those actions can’t be rewarded with peace talks. Sorry but sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.
#Israel
#NeverAgain

Bruce Mirken Oct 12, 2023

@walkonh20 Congrats on the most disingenuous statement I've seen all day. Blocking momentarily.

Rabbi Jill Zimmerman Oct 12, 2023

@BruceMirken I’m a long time peace activist who believes that violence is not the answer. And as usual, JVP does not speak for me. Notice that they make no mention of the innocent Israelis slaughtered. This is typical of them. If you want to communicate that all life is sacred, you need to say that. They do not.

Geoff Berner Oct 12, 2023

@rabbijill @BruceMirken so...to you this signifies that JVP want innocent people slaughtered? That they don't care? Is that what we're supposed to draw from what you're saying, Rabbi?

Geoff Berner Oct 12, 2023

@rabbijill @BruceMirken Rabbi, do you believe the people who wrote this statement care less about the value of human life than you do?

Rabbi Jill Zimmerman Oct 12, 2023

@Geoffberner @BruceMirken read their statement. Based on their history, they have no credibility with me nor the vast majority of Jews. They have created so much strife within the jewish community & it’s not necessary. We can disagree on policy but they don’t just do that. In the face of the immense pain right now, where is their statement against Hamas? Even the divided Israeli public knows better than hit Israel at a time of vast grief. Where is THEIR humanity?

Rabbi Jill Zimmerman Oct 12, 2023

@Geoffberner @BruceMirken the “root cause” of the slaughter of innocent Israelis in their beds & of kids at a dance festival & grandmothers is: HAMAS. Where is JVP’s stand on THAT? From their letter: “There is only one way to end violence: to address its root cause, 75 years of Israeli military occupation and apartheid. We must end U.S. complicity in this systemic oppression."

Geoff Berner Oct 13, 2023

@rabbijill @BruceMirken but who created Hamas, Rabbi? Who made them a political force because they wanted to undermine the P.L.O. Who was that, Rabbi? Your deliberate amnesia is showing.

Geoff Berner Oct 13, 2023

@rabbijill @BruceMirken Hamas could have been stopped. Netanyahu chose not to stop them, because he wants to clear everyone out of Gaza. To end it. He and Hamas are working together right now to shore up their respective political positions. If you can't see that, I don't know what I can do to get you there.

Geoff Berner Oct 13, 2023

@rabbijill you must at least understand that Netanyahu knows this will drive moderate people out of Israel. That every time this happens, the crazies become a bigger voting block. These massacres help Netanyahu. And that is why he permitted them, despite the mountain of warnings he received. Am I wrong about that?

Earthling Oct 13, 2023

@Geoffberner @rabbijill

A logical extrapolation of extrem right-wing policies of the past:
There is reason to believe that Netanyahu & Co. want to annex the West Bank and Gaza. The Palestinians are “unfortunately” a disruptive factor for this.

Geoff Berner Oct 13, 2023

@rabbijill @BruceMirken I'd say you're the one creating strife here, by falsely implying murderous, inhuman motivations to a left wing Jewish peace group. Are these people not Jews like you? Are you really implying that they are somehow complicit in the slaughter of Jews? Do you actually believe that?

keithzg Oct 12, 2023

@rabbijill @BruceMirken The article is citing (and links to) https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/urgent-tell-congress-to-stop-fueling-violence/ where it says:

> As of Tuesday, October 10, there have been over 770 Palestinians killed and over 900 Israelis.

I'm guessing however you'll find some way to knee-jerk dismiss still despite having made such a basic factual error yourself.

URGENT: Stop arming Israel (call now) - JVP

The U.S. must work to immediately de-escalate to prevent the further loss of life, and not fuel and exacerbate the violence by sending more weapons to Israel.

JVP

Pax Ahimsa Gethen Oct 12, 2023

@rabbijill @BruceMirken

FWIW they do mention the slaughtered Israelis in this statement issued today:

"Jewish Voice for Peace mourns deeply for the over 1,200 Israelis killed, the families destroyed, including many of our own, and fears for the lives of Israelis taken hostage. Many are still counting the dead, looking for missing loved ones, devastated by the losses."

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/10/statement23-10-11/

Jewish Voice for Peace calls on all people of conscience to stop imminent genocide - JVP

We can and we must stop this. Never again means never again — for anyone.

JVP

Pax Ahimsa Gethen Oct 12, 2023

@rabbijill @BruceMirken

The JVP statement also goes on to say:

"We wholeheartedly agree with leading Palestinian rights groups: the massacres committed by Hamas against Israeli civilians are horrific war crimes. There is no justification in international law for the indiscriminate killing of civilians or the holding of civilian hostages."

Rabbi Jill Zimmerman Oct 12, 2023

@funcrunch @BruceMirken it’s good they included that sentence. JVP has a history. They have created a huge amount of pain within the jewish community. I don’t know of 1 single Jew who wishes harm on the innocent citizens of Gaza. That is not unique to JVP. Maybe JVP could be imploring HAMAS to stop using the Gazans as human shields. Or to release the hostages.

olaolarolla Oct 12, 2023

@BruceMirken ...hats off to you guys, you are the better men because you can let atrocities like this go by brah...

TAI Oct 12, 2023

@BruceMirken You can't defeat your reflection, you can only change what is looking in the mirror. So Israel decides to smash the mirror? "Flatten it, eradicate them all", " they are all this or that", hmm where have we heard that before? They've already proven they have no problem with suffering or oppression , they just want to be the ones inflicting it.No way this clanky invasion like something out of thunder dome happened without Netanyahu knowing, it happened because he wanted it to happen.

Asariel Oct 12, 2023

@BruceMirken Those two conflicts (Ukraine & Israel) are caused by different reasons and must stop at once. In the case of Israel it is caused by a systemic oppression. One example of this is the destruction of food and other perishables years before the attack last Saturday (7-10). And it has been researched how these conditions radicalize the youth.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2010/05/13/israel-investigate-unlawful-destruction-gaza-war

Israel: Investigate Unlawful Destruction in Gaza War

Human Rights Watch

TAI Oct 13, 2023

@BruceMirken The greatest sin wrought all this, indifference. Any atrocity becomes possible with indifference