danielOct 2, 2023
Tony Pennino
Is it possible to be surprised and not surprised at the same time?
Oct 1, 2023 at 9:40pmWeb
Show threadmonkee Oct 2, 2023

@beatnikprof "FunFact":

Tesla opted out of Radar and is using image recognition only (cause it's cheaper). So i suspect that problem will be much worst for them.

PS: Please fight Self Driving Cars without Radar/Lidar

Show threadReiner Jung 🇬🇱 🇺🇦 🇪🇺Oct 2, 2023

@beatnikprof yes. The feeling is mutual. I thought all the AI computer people got that memo.

Also why do they not use LIDAR sensors that can detect an object (in that case a person; yes object sounds very inappropriate, but that is how the tech works) regardless whether some fancy AI can classify the pixels correctly?

Show threadTobias DenkingerOct 3, 2023

@prefec2
"[...] why do they not use LIDAR sensors that can detect an object [...]"

Because Elon removed the LIDAR sensors.
@beatnikprof

Show threadZeugsOct 2, 2023
@beatnikprof quiet old, this article, it's from 2019. Any new findings on this?
Show threadNot a Spring OnionOct 2, 2023

@Zeugs @beatnikprof

Unlikely that anything changed in the meantime.

This is normally "simply" a problem with the training data, in which some groups are underrepresented.
I put "simply" in quotes, because there is often little incentive to build data sets with proper representation.

The problem has been well-known for at least a decade, yet e.g. in 2020 Zoom still wasn't able to do proper background subtraction for people with darker skin.

Show threadZeugsOct 2, 2023
@wakame @beatnikprof usually they say it will be solved with the next version. Also sounds like a source for legal trouble.
Show threadMatengOct 4, 2023
@Zeugs @beatnikprof For everybody interested, here's the article: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/3/5/18251924/self-driving-car-racial-bias-study-autonomous-vehicle-dark-skin
Study finds a potential risk with self-driving cars: failure to detect dark-skinned pedestrians

The findings speak to a bigger problem in the development of automated systems: algorithmic bias.

Vox
Show threadZeugsOct 4, 2023
@mateng @beatnikprof I googled the headline . I already knew it. But it's still "old" and it would be nice to know if they fixed it in the last 4 years
Show threadex or current IDF unwelcomeOct 2, 2023
@beatnikprof Some insurers in the UK are refusing to insure EVs and many charge much larger premia. I wonder if you get insurance it covers you when it isn't you but a computer drivimg?
Show threadSeiðrOct 2, 2023
@beatnikprof Just as it is possible to expect nothing and still be let down. @cstross
Show threadsnaeqeOct 2, 2023
@beatnikprof
We're several years past that publishing date, the only thing to be surprised about today is meeting people that haven't heard about this earlier.
Show threadNoel KellyOct 2, 2023

@beatnikprof

No surprise, given the same group gets misidentified more by facial recognition systems.

Show threadTimur KunayevOct 2, 2023
@beatnikprof I think the german word for it is *shocked Picachu*
Show threadAlanOct 4, 2023
@djkz @beatnikprof Am German, can confirm.
Show threadLyle Solla-YatesOct 2, 2023
@beatnikprof ah, pre-COVID times, back when all we had to worry about was racist robot murder trucks
Show threadCautionWIP (he/him) 🏳️‍🌈🇨🇦🕎Oct 3, 2023
@Lyle @beatnikprof
Show threadMichael MullerOct 2, 2023

@beatnikprof @cstross

So “not dispensing liquid soap to black people” was just phase one? That escalated quickly.

Show threadDave JacobyOct 2, 2023
@michaeljmuller @beatnikprof @cstross came here to say this
Show threadTaqwa System  Oct 2, 2023
@beatnikprof that's actually common in AI. Automatic taps don't recognize black skin. Doctors aren't trained to see cancers etc on black skin.
Show threadKevin Boyd (he/him) 🇨🇦Oct 2, 2023
@beatnikprof I'm pretty sure that Veridian Dynamics has a pill for achieving that sensation.
Show threadMaarten PelgrimOct 2, 2023
@beatnikprof certainly. Holding paradox and experiencing that as pleasure is one of the things that truly set us apart from machines.
Show threadElz de KorteOct 2, 2023
@beatnikprof thanks mister Racist X
Show threadBarnet BoyOct 2, 2023
@beatnikprof how disturbing is that???
Show threadJoyographicOct 2, 2023
@beatnikprof Of course
Show thread@[email protected]Oct 2, 2023
@beatnikprof so is it *all* self driving car brands or just Tesla brands having a hard time with dark skinned people?
Show threadSarah SavageOct 3, 2023
@beatnikprof @stevegrunwell I literally facepalmed and yet I am not surprised.
Show threadDavidOct 3, 2023
@beatnikprof Maybe it is, but in this case, zero surprise whatsoever. Especially seeing who is at the forefront of those things.
Show thread🎓 Doc Freemo  🇳🇱Oct 3, 2023
@beatnikprof Wouldnt be surprised if this is true.. But the journalistic integrity of vox is so horrible I dont expect anything to be "fact" when i see their branding... so im with ya, this can go either way.
Show threadTobias DenkingerOct 3, 2023

@beatnikprof
You usually recognize obstacles with RADAR and/or LIDAR. (Only Tesla does it differently, for cost-cutting reasons.)

Did the study also analyse non-Teslas? If so, how does the skin tone influence detection via RADAR and LIDAR? (If not, then the study tells us that Elon is bad at engineering, which we already knew.)

Show threadLarge Heydon ColliderOct 3, 2023
@beatnikprof No. And this isn't surprising.
Show thread@[email protected]Oct 3, 2023
Think robots being (unintentionally?) racist have been a thing since the Kinect, pretty sure that had the same - if not similar - detection problems.
Show threadMastodon MigrationOct 3, 2023
@beatnikprof Between self driving cars and AI not sure which is a bigger con job.
Show threadbluestarultorOct 4, 2023
@mastodonmigration @beatnikprof They're both the same con job; one is just attached to a ton or so of metal on wheels.
Show threadAroop RoelofsOct 3, 2023
@beatnikprof Tony's state: Shrodinger's Surprise.
Show threadAlex/penguat. They/themOct 3, 2023
@beatnikprof I think in this case it is possible to be fatally surprised, and still unsurprised at the same time
Show threadMarronvulpesOct 3, 2023
@beatnikprof Cars are so goddamn racist.
Show threadMark R. StonemanOct 4, 2023
@beatnikprof @StillIRise1963 Reminds me of an episode of "Better off Ted" called "Racial Sensitivity" some 14 years ago.
Show threadDavid H. McCoyOct 4, 2023
@beatnikprof
Shocking!
Show threadThe Whore of BlahbylonOct 4, 2023
@beatnikprof Have they tried being more reflective?
Show threadRebelGeek99Oct 4, 2023
@beatnikprof somebody need to check that training data set 😒
Show threadRonnieOct 4, 2023
@beatnikprof
I'm not sure. Considering this is a problem with the way most technology is created and produced I think it's more not surprising and enraging that it's still happening.
Show threadThis is HellOct 4, 2023
@beatnikprof @courtcan Wait, are they naked or something?
Show threadAlan StainerOct 4, 2023
@beatnikprof There have been issues like this with face recognition software, so it's not a new problem.
Show threadRaysOfRedOct 4, 2023
@beatnikprof Race cars vs racist cars
Show threadRS, Author, Novelist, ProsaistOct 4, 2023
@beatnikprof I have yet to write an program that a beta tester didn't break. Considering the demographics of programmers, I'm surprised the thing recognizes women.
Show threadAlanOct 4, 2023
@beatnikprof AUGH
Show threadgunstickOct 4, 2023
@beatnikprof recently a Tesla almost slammed into my car in a roundabout. I suspect it didn't see me as another car as I am not driving an unrealistically oversized SUV.
Show threadPhantom Kitty (Trans)Oct 4, 2023
@beatnikprof I have a friend who blind so can't drive herself. She has been looking forwards to being able to get a self-driving car that she can tell an address to and it takes her to it. There are people with an absolute need for the technology, but it is just not there yet.
Show threadDaniel ⏚Oct 5, 2023
@beatnikprof it's not like we already had racist soap dispenser 
Show threadIan MoltonOct 5, 2023
@beatnikprof Never saw this one coming...
Show threadWraitheOct 6, 2023
@beatnikprof @ReneeWestberry
Show threadBKMOct 6, 2023

@beatnikprof

True. The idea that an egomaniac apartheid-era South African focused only on white people is surprising.

Show threadBunnytown 💜⁷Oct 6, 2023

@beatnikprof

😱🤬😱🤬😱🤬😱

Show threadCrystal_Fish_CavesOct 16, 2023

@beatnikprof there was a video on youtube recently of the automated soap dispensers;
White persons hands; soap
black persons hands; ......
white hand; SOAP
black hand; ...........

we gotta get this fixed yall we aint all the same but we all deserved respect

Show threadLarryOct 16, 2023
@beatnikprof
No suprise as same is true of facial recognition software.