Mastodawn

David Shinberg Sep 28, 2023

"School choice" sounds great, but it's a euphemism for defunding public schools and funneling the money to private, for-profit schools that don't have to accept all students, are not accountable for their curricula, and can use your tax dollars for religious indoctrination. #GOPDebate

Skeptic Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich
It doesn't even sound great.

Cassandrich Sep 28, 2023

@abqralph @rbreich Came here to say just that.

i have spoken Sep 28, 2023

ty for this toot.

people dont realise that the targeting of public schools and its funding AND teachers goes back to the backlash to brown vs the board if education.

my parents sent me and my brother to catholic schools growing up, but my father told me he would never support defunding public schools.

he said they werent just essential to communities and the economy.

they were essential to children and were the main vehicle to giving them a chance at life.

Rob Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich Sweden tried this

Ken J Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich
re: curricula
All schools, public and private, are accountable to states, in varying degrees, for their curricula. There are also private entities which oversee accreditation. It's not a free-for-all, Robert. I would never send my child to a non-accredited school. It's not like children make these choices in a vacuum, and neither do their parents.

FriedPicante Sep 28, 2023

@KenJ @rbreich Not every area can afford to have more than one school. If your only choice is an unaccredited school (and you KNOW that info will be hard to find), that's your only available choice and it won't be an equivalent education to current public school standards.

Ken J Sep 28, 2023

@cromulentkeebs @rbreich
Agree that many areas are educationally impoverished. If there's an adequate need, though, the market can take care of that. Please note, also, that the major faith traditions are all commanded to care for those very communities, and have fairly deep pockets with which to do so. Thus creating choices.

FriedPicante Sep 28, 2023

@KenJ @rbreich Every church isn't going to make a school (most probably won't, nor should they receive public funding to do so) nor are they going to all be accredited. Especially not in rural areas. It's an illusion of choice.

Ken J Sep 28, 2023

@cromulentkeebs @rbreich

1. Don't confuse "build" with "operate";
2. Many, however, will be accredited. Don't forget, too, it's about choice;
3. I'm not Catholic, but I sent my daughter to a Catholic high school because of the quality of instruction and the diversity of the student body -- on a scholarship. It can be done. In fact, I believe this is a place where the various faith traditions can bring morality into an amoral society. Medrassah? Not for me, but mebbe for someone I know.

Ken J Sep 28, 2023

@cromulentkeebs @rbreich
There's truth in what you say, keebs. There's truth in what you've said, Robert. But there's also truth in what I say. That's why there's a debate. I would be happy to see my tax dollars fund a child who attends a "religious" school while they're studying STEM and literature. Ethics, as in my reply to Robert, must be, by the separation doctrine, eviscerated from public education. But it's as much a part of developing well-rounded citizens as STEM or lit.

cui bono, baby.Sep 28, 2023

@KenJ "In varying degrees" is doing a lot of work here.

cui bono, baby.Sep 28, 2023

@KenJ Unfortunately, it is a free for all. see https://www.timesofisrael.com/nyc-says-18-yeshivas-failing-to-teach-secular-subjects-in-accordance-with-state-law/

NYC says 18 yeshivas failing to teach secular subjects in accordance with state law

After eight-year probe, city's Department of Education report finds private Hasidic schools don't provide 'substantially equivalent' education to public schools

Ken J Sep 28, 2023

@cuibonobaby
Good to see the august State of NY is doing its job. I never once argued against oversight, nor will I.

cui bono, baby.Sep 28, 2023

@KenJ I didn't suggest you had.

Ken J Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich
re: indoctrination
I agree that tax dollars, aggregated from the general populace, ought not to favor one faith tradition over another. The problem arises because of the separation of church and state. Most parents indoctrinate their children into a particular ethical system, be it sacred or secular. That is the job of the parent. Under the separation doctrine, public entities must completely eviscerate ethical judgments from their curricula. Children suffer from conflicting messages.

Randall Lee Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich private, for-profit corporations that see education as secondary to profits

Tracy Hall Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich Just like "Term Limits", they **HAVE** school choice - but why should we pay for it?
(You *have* "Term Limits" - it's called "The Vote". Term limits just let *you* tell *me* who *I* can vote for - it's none of your business.)

ShantiS Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich A large majority of private schools are religious schools (non-denominational Christian or Catholic/Jesuit). Not to say they don’t provide a good education. But it makes no sense to take taxpayer money and give it to private schools, while public schools are being starved for funds. … not to mention the fact, that the free school meals are a lifesaver for so many kids. #publicschools

Mark Fischer Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich see also “Right to work” states. 🙄

RodneyPetersonTalentAgency Sep 28, 2023

Charter school bullshit.

Kingsley Bugarin PLY OAM 🇦🇺Sep 28, 2023

Politicians in the US (mostly republicans) are impressively skilled at writing foul, toxic legislation with pretty names.

School choice
Citizens united
Right to work
At-will employment
Patriot act

Dodi89 Sep 28, 2023

https://carebeautyco.com/india-has-completely-eradicated-polio/

India has completely eradicated polio - Care Beauty

India has completely eradicated polio The World Health Organization is preparing to declare India a polio-free country next February,

Care Beauty

theMamiyaMan 🇺🇦 🇨🇦Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich When did school management become a federal responsibility?

Sta bien Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich 100%. Take away ciriculae that promotes critical thinking and voila you get presidents like 45.

shwarz Sep 28, 2023

jonossa seuraava Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich
To be honest it doesn't sound great. Why would you want to have to even think about which school is the best for your child? Well unless the system is already fucked and the schools are inequal.

sofia ☮️🏴Sep 28, 2023

@jonossaseuraava @rbreich "choice is bad, because i don't like to think"…

jonossa seuraava Sep 28, 2023

@sofia @rbreich me irl

jonossa seuraava Sep 28, 2023

@sofia @rbreich no but honestly what if every school was and equal choice

sofia ☮️🏴Sep 28, 2023

@jonossaseuraava @rbreich well, there son't be any experimentation, no specialization, i don't think there will be many imporovements and probably slow decline because lack of incentives.

well, it also just kinda impossible. teachers are different, students are different, you can't just command everyone to be the same…

sofia ☮️🏴Sep 28, 2023

@jonossaseuraava @rbreich but while i don't think they would become the same, i think you can expect a more consistent high quality if people have a choice. there is probably more than one grocery store in your neighborhood. does one of them just suck completely? plus you have the choice to get some thing in one and some in the other place, etc. what do you think would improve if you didn't have any choice where to get groceries anymore?

sofia ☮️🏴Sep 28, 2023

@jonossaseuraava @rbreich then again, i think it should be the child's choice, not the patents.

i'm actually against forced child labour, which is controversial…

and lack of choice is not the only reasons schools are horrible… like poverty, segregationist nimby laws, controlling parents and the states interest to indoctrinate people…

shmeeth Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich public schools deserve to be defunded if for no other reason than they have been failing comparatively. even when public schools are comparably good they are a euphemism for institutions of government indoctrination, wokism and social justice. the future of education won't look like a 1950s factory. from kahn academy to chat gpt to home school to video tutorials, to internships/mentorships the future of education won't be and shouldn't be dictated by a bell.

Threadbane Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich
There should be no private or religious K-12 schools at all. None. And without an advanced degree, one should not be permitted to home school their kids. There definitely should be no tax deduction for private/religious school tuition or donations to private/religious schools.

lain Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich "food choice" sounds great, but

Doug 🌈🇨🇦

@rbreich Also Charter Schools are ranked near the bottom for student performance.

Alastair Creelman Sep 28, 2023

@rbreich Already happened here in Sweden.

Alexx Kay Sep 29, 2023

@rbreich Recall, too, that the first cries of "school choice" came in the 1960s, as backlash against attempts to forcibly desegregate schools.

Elizabeth Shelton Sep 29, 2023

@rbreich a number of years ago, a friend of mine who worked/works in teaching, pointed out that charter schools were able to (and did) boot out kids whose underperformance messed with the school’s record, making them look better than public schools where the kids were not expelled.

Hawkmoon Sep 29, 2023

And religious schools.

jigamathingy Oct 2, 2023

@rbreich great..further erosion of the seperation of church and state.