Mastodawn

This was a brutal episode & I'm not re-watching the whole thing just to take notes, like I usually do. So everything in this thread is memory-based..

Also, a note:
If you haven't seen ep6 yet, it does NOT hold back on physical & psychological abuse, dehumanisation & slavery.
So if you have specific triggers around those things, maybe don't watch this episode right now. Or consider holding off until you have a support/self-care plan in place for yourself.
(I may have watched ep6 before I was 100% ready, so don't be like me, basically 😅)

With that said..I had difficulty making a list of likes/dislikes for ep6 since those categories didn't seem quite right somehow 😅
So instead I've just gone w/ noting what was effective or not for me, & which things I have some questions about..

Thread w/ more detailed thoughts (& actual spoilers) below:

#TheWheelOfTime #WOTShow #WOTS2E6

[1/4]

nachtlied Sep 24, 2023

EFFECTIVE:

The show def made a Choice w/ that cold open 😲 It was effective..but uff..
Egwene-Renna arc 😭 Also:
- I hope Madeleine Madden had an on-set therapist, physio & other supports available to her. (She does seem fine in S2 interviews, so I'm assuming she had what she needed..)
- Ditto for Xelia Mendes-Jones, who was also amazing & terrifying as Renna. They'll have at least one more major scene w/ Egwene, which I'm already anticipating w/ dread 😅
- The forced tree-burning somehow made me sicker than 'Pour the water' 💀
Ryma-Basan arc destroyed me 😭
- when Ryma showed up still free in ep5, I did suspect she would be captured at some point soon. But the capture happens 'off-screen' in the books, so I wasn't expecting to see the full thing here, ahhh 😭
- It was also pretty brutal to put her capture in the same episode as Egwene's torture 😱 but it was effective dramatically & thematically..
- (side note: Ryma's weaves tho 👀😲)
Nynaeve & Elayne odd couple, we love to see it! 🥰
Loial treesong 🥰 (albeit under duress)
Mat & Rand reunion 🥲
Mat finding out about Min's betrayal, then sort-of abandoning Rand again. Brutal. (Altho I suspect Mat will still go to Falme - hope we get some portal stone-like visions too?)
Moiraine & House Damodred drama
Moiraine writing to Siuan, kill me 💔😭

QUESTIONABLE:

I do wish the show had included a brief trigger warning at the top of the episode
- Book readers knew what was coming, so we could at least 'prepare' ourselves a little (insofar as that was even possible)
- But I'm really not sure that non-readers would've understood exactly what was coming their way.. And I imagine that anyone w/ e.g. PTSD related to past trauma or abuse would not have responded well to anything in this episode.
Alanna & her warders confronting Lan w/ the accusation of being a Darkfriend. I kind of see where it came from from a S2 logic perspective..but something still didn't quite work for me here? Maybe we just needed more of a transition b/w ep4 & ep6?
- (also I have q's about how Alanna was able to bind Lan when he wasn't trying outright trying to kill them at that point? I mean, I guess he was willing to fight her warders to get past them..but this was still stretching things a bit.. 🤔)

THANKS, I HATE IT:

Lanfear-Liandrin scene was not on my bingo card 👀 (also, holy s---, Lanfear! cold blooded mercy kill)
I have a very bad feeling about where House Damodred is going..which is a pity, b/c I've enjoyed watching M & Anvaere this season. That's definitely not going in a good direction tho 😬

[2/4]

nachtlied Sep 24, 2023

TBD:

Lan just straight out telling Alanna & warders that he & Moiraine found the Dragon Reborn (prob among other things?) was..questionable. It's true he was under duress, but it still didn't seem quite in character for Lan. I'll wait for the show to explain this more, tho..
I don't know how the show plans to weave together Alanna/Verin + Moiraine + White Tower + Dragon Reborn threads yet. I have..q's about Alanna & warders knowing about the DR now? Also trying to just wait-and-see on this too..

[3/4]

nachtlied Sep 24, 2023

How was Logain still able to sense the intensity of Rand's channelling?? Was he only seeing the glow? I'm confused 😅
Now that Liandrin is prob working w/ Lanfear, I have a feeling that Liandrin is going to fill the S3/book4 Alviarin role.. If she does, that adds a whole other extra-petty & devastating layer to the S3 White Tower storyline (i.e. it would presumably be Lanfear's way of partially getting revenge on Moiraine - b/c Lanfear has to know about M&Siuan at this point since she's apparently all up in peoples' dreams..). Arghhh 😢
I also have a dreadful feeling, somehow, that the Liandrin & Lady Amalisa plot point from book2 could maybe be transposed onto Liandrin & a different noble lady in Cairhien? 🤔😱 (It looks like the show is transposing parts of other book2 Fal Dara happenings to Cairhien, so that wouldn't be totally out of place..) It would be yet another way for Lanfear to get at Moiraine, in any case.

[4/4]

hybrid havoc Sep 24, 2023

@nachtlied
> How was Logain still able to sense the intensity of Rand's channelling?? Was he only seeing the glow? I'm confused

This is one of the places where show metaphysics differ from the books. Show Logain seemingly has a Talent that allows him to sense when another man can/is channeling. And it has continued past his gentling. So I believe it was the glow he was seeing to gauge power.

hybrid havoc Sep 24, 2023

@nachtlied
> also I have q's about how Alanna was able to bind Lan when he wasn't trying outright trying to kill them at that point? I mean, I guess he was willing to fight her warders to get past them..but this was still stretching things a bit..

Using the One Power to bind is not using the One Power as a weapon IMO. But if it were, Darkfriends have a carve-out in the third oath, so if she truly believed...

nachtlied Sep 24, 2023

@hybridhavoc hm I might disagree here: binding could be a weapon if used to immobilise a perceived threat..but anyway, I'll just ignore the show logic for now 😉

👀👀 re: 3rd Oath darkfriend carve-out...

The Cambrian Mammal Sep 24, 2023

@nachtlied re: Alanna: I think it's a loophole in the Oaths - she doesn't consider that to be using the Power as a weapon. If the Warders are trying to detain him to get answers out of him, then she can expect them not to kill him when he's immobilised. Thus she's free to truss him up.

The Cambrian Mammal Sep 24, 2023

@nachtlied (Also possibly protecting her Warders as Cas said, I haven't rewatched to check the details)

nachtlied Sep 25, 2023

@Naraoia ehh, I think I would disagree w/ Alanna then b/c she was totally binding him as a threat ("tell us the truth, or else.."). Weapon or threat, same diff.. 😉

Those 3 Oaths also need a One Power referee, if u ask me. Too many judgement calls involved 😅

The Cambrian Mammal Sep 25, 2023

@nachtlied I don't think the Oaths were ever meant to be a *good* thing! The books are full of complaints about "Aes Sedai truths" and all that 😃

hybrid havoc Sep 25, 2023

@nachtlied @Naraoia
> Those 3 Oaths also need a One Power referee, if u ask me.

Do you want Seanchan? Because that's how you get Seanchan.

nachtlied Sep 28, 2023

@hybridhavoc @Naraoia haha yikes! Now I'm rethinking my suggestion.. 🤔😂

Sapphire Sep 25, 2023

@nachtlied @Naraoia

The full verbiage of the oaths is:

1. To speak no word that is not true

2. To make no weapon with which one man may kill another

3. Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder, or another Aes Sedai.

Note the "except against darkfriends or shadowspawn" - so if Alanna thought Lan was a darkfriend, she would be able to use the power as a weapon against him. I still maintain that a weave of air to hold him isn't a "weapon" but she has an out either way.

The Cambrian Mammal Sep 25, 2023

@kwsapphire I wasn't going to bring up the Darkfriend exception because IIRC it's inconsistent within the books, but yes, there's also that.

nachtlied Sep 28, 2023

@Naraoia @kwsapphire
OH ok..all I remembered about the 3rd oath was the "never to use the OP as a weapon..except in the last extreme defence of her life" part.
I think that's the part that Moiraine told Egwene in S1, anyway?

I forgot about the warder/AS exceptions, tho..& didn't know about the Darkfriend fine print.. 😅

Also I'm not sure that the full text of the Oaths have even come up in the first 4 books yet either 🤔

Anyway yes, I can now see how Alanna's action technically falls within the bounds of the 3rd Oath (altho it was still a threat IMO :P)