Evan Prodromou"Surviving the climate crisis will require a widespread, fundamental change of our values and beliefs."
Strongly agree
Somewhat agree
Somewhat disagree
Strongly disagree
Poll ended at .
I probably asked for it by using the word "surviving", but there's more climate edgelordism in the comments than I'm usually comfortable with.
In general, if you're doing omnicidal ideation, I don't want to talk to you.
I'm somewhat disagree. I think that we will need to change our understanding of mineral rights; a lot of those fossil fuels will need to stay in the ground.
And we'll need to start treating ecosystem services as valuable and deserving of compensation.
But in general I think liberal democratic values, like those enshrined in the UN Declaration of Human Rights, are sufficient to get us through this.
Another value I think we'll need to cultivate is an appreciation of place, instead of the celebration of global placelessness we have now.
We need to reduce travel and restore ecosystems. We need to eat native foods, grown locally. Learning to love the place that you live in, and taking responsibility for it, may be an important value change.
Matt Lehrer@evan I just finished this book - This Is Where You Belong - about that! I enjoyed it and recommend it. https://openlibrary.org/books/OL27210260M/This_is_where_you_belong
@mattlehrer I read it a couple of years ago. It's a fave!
G. Allen Morris III
SallyStrange@evan It is a significant value change.
We live in a society whose elite political classes debate "should the owners of private property have zero restrictions on their ability to coerce labor and pollute the environment (GOP)" vs "should the owners of private property have ~some~ restrictions on their ability to coerce labor and pollute the environment (Dems)."
Neither one has ANY room whatsoever for "eating native foods, grown locally," much less caring for the places we're in.
Tim Bray@evan
I think we're going to need a shift in *political* cultures, somehow building a willingness to drive a large and wealthy business sector into bankruptcy. The Overton window is nowhere near where it needs to be yet.
I think we're going to need a shift in *political* cultures, somehow building a willingness to drive a large and wealthy business sector into bankruptcy. The Overton window is nowhere near where it needs to be yet.
@timbray we've done it before with other toxins, like asbestos, but never to this scale, I agree.
Aral Balkan
django@evan particularly Petro-Masculinity https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0305829818775817
Nelson@evan Capitalism is incompatible with survival, and it's baked into our civilization. Two fatal features:
- Negative externalities: Are all profits a measurement of costs the capitalist does not pay, such as damage to the environment or exploiting workers? Gov't can moderate this, but fully accounting for externalities would be a fundamental shift.
- Inequality: the climate crisis is caused by the rich, on an individual & national scale. Accumulation of capital inevitably creates inequality.
𝐊𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐮 
"Surviving the climate crisis will require such a widespread, fundamental change of our values and beliefs that it's almost impossible this will ever happen"
☑️ Strongly agree
Lprodromo@evan clicked somewhat agree but meant strongly!
@lprodromo duly noted!
Luis Villa@evan Hot take: "fundamental change of our values" here usually means in practice "the poorer parts of the globe have to stay poor, while the richer parts make token, symbolic sacrifices and coast on the wealth built on climate damage they already caused" and the poorer parts of the globe are going to have none of that.
John Francis@evan "we can let greed run amok" has to go.
JerryAfter watching how we dealt with Covid, which was killing millions of people *right now*, I don't know how anyone can have any faith in human civilization surviving the climate crisis at all.
kechpaja@evan If it does, we’re dead.
meduz'@evan Who is “our” and what are their values and beliefs? 🙃
Not sure summing all systems created by human societies mean that all humans have common values and beliefs.
Mark Darbyshire@evan Somewhat agree because it depends what you mean by survival. Do we need a widespread, fundamental change of our values and beliefs? Absolutely. But the great injustice is that people in poverty and developing countries face the worst impacts, while the wealthy have the greatest ability to withstand climate and geopolitical instability.
@mark so, you don't think that widespread understanding of that great injustice is important or necessary?
@evan It is absolutely important and necessary. It's just to me a strong agree implied I believe the complete extinction of humanity is imminent. I don't. I believe unjust upheaval and devastation is imminent, which is slightly different. In fact, unjust upheaval and devastation is already here.
McNeely@evan its hard for me to square this one with your previous poll about overall support for combatting climate change. A clear majority want to act so why are we "strongly" changing our values?
Instead it seems to me that government policy does not accurately reflect the values of the majority (that's a whole different problem though)
schalken@evan And _also_ the destruction of capitalism!
Daniel Haran@evan strong disagree.
I don't think most people in QC give regular thought to our electric generation - and that infrastructure is a big part of why QC emits less per capita than ON.
Even those who are proud of this likely don't know how many of our steel plants are electric rather than coal-powered - or whether our cement and various other industries are abated.
Most of the time, the majority of us have little say in our emissions.
aaron@evan my answer to this depends on who ‘our’ is in the question.
Mark Andrew@evan I almost answered strongly disagree, but as you can see from other conversations I took the low carbon pill decades ago. So I'm not representative.
So I answered strongly agree.
Mainly because of the poster who couldn't believe that I'm really carfree (I am).
Misuse Case@evan I think we are going to have to change our beliefs in that we are really going to have to start walking the talk on valuing human rights, which we don’t really do.
Right now we apparently value “the economy” and “markets” above everything, which you might call neoliberalism and I call worshipping Moloch, and it’s what got us into this mess.