Derick Rethans

The Welsh way of doing numbers is even more bonkers than French and Danish.

"The thirty first" is "Yr unfed ar ddeg ar hugain", meaning "The first and ten and twenty".

"The eighteenth" is "Yr Deunawfed" (The two-nineth).

"The nineteenth" is "Yr pedwar ar bymtheg" (four and fifteenth).

#Welsh #Language #Cymreag

Aug 29, 2023 at 7:11pmWeb
Show threadSephsterAug 29, 2023
@derickr that's why in school I never learned above 19 ☺️
Show threadOwen BeresfordAug 29, 2023
@derickr Quite a few of the ones in French where to support historic trade units/ collections of trade units.
like sales unit "twenty bottles of wine" fit in a crate, and you ordered 4 and 1/2 crates, or 90 bottles.

Would the same apply to Welsh?
Show threadDerick RethansAug 29, 2023
@channelOwen I don't know. I'm just learning it, but it wouldn't surprise me!
Show threadMarcus BointonAug 29, 2023
@derickr and I thought French was bad with 97 starting with the word for 4...
Show threadDerick RethansAug 29, 2023
@Synchro quatre vingt dix sept!
Show threadPatrick O'BeirneAug 29, 2023
@derickr @Synchro
Four score and ten
Show threadDanAug 30, 2023

@derickr @Synchro

Nonante-sept !

Show threadNic DafisAug 29, 2023
@derickr not to be That Guy, but it's “Y Deunawfed” and “Y pedwarydd ar bymtheg”. The def. article is only “yr" before a vowel, and you missed the ordinal marker in 19th
Show threadDerick RethansAug 29, 2023

@nic That's OK! I did actually know the article too :-/.

I could edit the original post but I think it'll leave it wrong with these corrections.

Still learning...

Show threadDerick RethansAug 29, 2023
@nic Where did I miss the ordinal for 19th though?
Show threadNic DafisAug 30, 2023
@derickr pedwar*ydd*
Show threadNic DafisAug 30, 2023
@derickr it’s “fourth on fifteen”
Show threadDerick RethansAug 30, 2023
@nic Yes. That makes more sense. Now I wonder whether DuoLingo had it wrong, or I misremembered it! Diolch.
Show threadNic DafisAug 30, 2023

@derickr it’s one of the lessons my students have the most trouble with, but having some French helps! Like you say, it’s even more baroque than that, but it does have a certain appeal.

I like “pishyn chweugain” for “a 50 pence piece” - you really need to remember pre-decimal coinage for that one!

Show threadDerick RethansAug 30, 2023

@nic I never knew pre-decimal coins, as that wasn't a thing in the Netherlands :-)

Is there a shift in Welsh to get to more "modern" numbers — like from ddeudeg to undeg dau, and ugain to dauddeg?

Norway made such a shift—"tre og femti" (three and fifty) to "femtitre" (fifty-three)), where Dutch sticks with "drie en vijftig" (three and fifty).

Show threadNic DafisAug 30, 2023

@derickr the modern “decimal" system is used in almost all cases, except ordinals and time telling, and even there, you're as likely to hear “tri deg Awst" as “degfed ar hugain o Awst”. I'm not a native speaker, so I don't know how painful the former is.

I remember hearing an Actual Poet refer to 9/11 as “yr un deg unfed o Fedi” on the radio once. I wouldn't be surprised if people complained.

Show threadNic DafisAug 30, 2023

@derickr (TMI incoming)

pre-1970, £1 was split into 240 pennies, or 20 shillings of 12 pence each. There was a paper note for 10 shillings - a “ten bob note" in English vernacular, and “papur chweugain" in Welsh (“six-score”). Post-decimilisation, a shilling became 5 new pence, so the new 50p coin became a "ten bob bit" or “pishyn chweugain”

I don't know why “bob" was used for a shilling, and know I need to… my guess would be something to do with Robert Peel

Show threadNic DafisAug 30, 2023

Nobody knows, apparently

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shilling_(British_coin)#In_popular_culture

Shilling (British coin) - Wikipedia